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To Vaccinate or Not..

To Vaccinate or Not..

Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:43 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
What is your definition of "jolly along"?

Yes those who "over-advocate" & "fear-monger" would be quite correctly actively rebuked.

(I suppose you realise that UK GPs are paid separately for each vaccination they do---so in their interest to promote. However as I said they do not go against a parents will.)
U.K. GPs are under the Hippocratic Oath to do no (deliberate) harm. Ethics my dear, ethics. Along with bedside manner.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:44 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Nutek View Post
Or you could just go to a tetanus, diphtheria, whooping cough and typhoid party. If you are lucky someone with cholera may just show up too.

Oh shush you
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:48 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

it's called "Karma"
The Anti-Vaxxer Movement Is Getting More Organized and Powerful Than Ever Before
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:51 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
U.K. GPs are under the Hippocratic Oath to do no (deliberate) harm. Ethics my dear, ethics. Along with bedside manner.
The majority of UK medical schools do not use the traditional Oath now.

As you say--- "do no harm"----injecting a baby or child without the parents permission, will certainly harm the 'bedside manner'.

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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
Oh shush you
* cough *
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:55 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I know all that you are saying. However you cannot ignore the 'fact' that deaths and adverse reactions do happen however rare.
The majority of parents understand when it is explained that the risk is minute.
Those that do not want to take even the smallest risk have the legal right to refuse. (Unlike some countries the UK does not have a 'Samaritan law'.)

For the minority who do not allow vaccination, I agree that there should be compulsory quarantine for any child (or adult) with rubella, measles, chickenpox, whooping cough.

Regarding 'seatbelts' --the law is for insurance purposes also. The reason is the safety if the individual child not the safety of other children.

(LIW----I have personally vaccinated thousands of children----I would not do so without the permission of the parent(s).

I'm not ignoring it. I'm saying that the risk is miniscule when compared to the risks of failure to vaccinate.

Quarantine doesn't help - by the time you know you've got it, it's too late. You also cannot quarantine a mother from an embryo.

As it happens, I do also wish to be protected from killing children in a car accident because they aren't buckled up, just as I wish to be protected from killing motorcyclists in an accident because they aren't wearing helmets.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:56 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The majority of UK medical schools do not use the traditional Oath now.

As you say--- "do no harm"----injecting a baby or child without the parents permission, will certainly harm the 'bedside manner'.
Honey, I don't have any more time to devote to your nonsensical arguments, so I shall hand over to another on here. If you've scared-off parents from vaccinating by what you've said to them as a medic, then what you've done is unethical. Period.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:57 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Handily, I believe bovine is a base for many vaccines
Not sure if this is why you said that, so if it is excuse me for being dense, but the word 'vaccine' comes from the Latin 'vaccinus', meaning of or from the cow (cowpox being used for the first vaccine developed by Jenner for smallpox).
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:58 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I'm not ignoring it. I'm saying that the risk is miniscule when compared to the risks of failure to vaccinate.

Quarantine doesn't help - by the time you know you've got it, it's too late. You also cannot quarantine a mother from an embryo.

As it happens, I do also wish to be protected from killing children in a car accident because they aren't buckled up, just as I wish to be protected from killing motorcyclists in an accident because they aren't wearing helmets.
(It's spelled minuscule, kittycat.)
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Not sure if this is why you said that, so if it is excuse me for being dense, but the word 'vaccine' comes from the Latin 'vaccinus', meaning of or from the cow (cowpox being used for the first vaccine developed by Jenner for smallpox).
Well done, SoS! You're exactly correct. Jenner would be pleased. The extant French word for cow is vache; same root.

Last edited by vinegarboy; Mar 27th 2019 at 5:04 pm.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Me and a mate used to go to Bristol's Colston Hall for the wrestling and cheer on the baddies. It was great entertainment and so cheap.
Shhh - not meant to talk about Colst Nall, my cocker - paid for by slavery nall that.

Nowadays it's easier to cheer on the baddies in Parliament, more fakery and tricks there than in the wrestling ring......
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 5:07 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

I favour the idea of holding parents who don't allow their children to be vaccinated liable for any damage that results. If your unvaccinated child gets measles or whatever and gets sick or dies or if someone they infect suffers a likewise fate, then the parent gets prosecuted. Life's all about choices. The naturopath parents in Alberta who in 2016 let their 19 month old die of menengitis rather than take him for treatment and were convicted of failing to provide the basic necessaries of life is one precedent, and there are probably more out there.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...do-it-for-them
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 5:09 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
I favour the idea of holding parents who don't allow their children to be vaccinated liable for any damage that results. If your unvaccinated child gets measles or whatever and gets sick or dies or if someone they infect suffers a likewise fate, then the parent gets prosecuted. Life's all about choices. The naturopath parents in Alberta who in 2016 let their 19 month old die of menengitis rather than take him for treatment and were convicted of failing to provide the basic necessaries of life is one precedent, and there are probably more out there.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...do-it-for-them
So a strict liability system, I can see that but without assets to support would be worthless, there would need to be an Insurance Requirement as well.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 5:09 pm
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
Honey, I don't have any more time to devote to your nonsensical arguments, so I shall hand over to another on here. If you've scared-off parents from vaccinating by what you've said to them as a medic, then what you've done is unethical. Period.
I agree !!!!!!
You seem to have an understanding problem. My posts are about parental permission .

I am saying -------if all you say to the parent does not convince them-----then you cannot do it without their permission! They have a right to worry.

In reality they will have come to see you for something else and you point out about vaccinations not done----it will be 'flagged up' on the records-----.
You give the reasons----if you don't convince---=-it is THEIR decision.

(Lists are kept of those not vaccinated, all vaccinations have to be carefully listed in order to get the money!!!!!)

Are you saying you should 'grab' the baby and vaccinate?????



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Old Mar 27th 2019, 5:14 pm
  #60  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
Well done, SoS! You're exactly correct. Jenner would be pleased. The extant French word for cow is vache; same root.
Vaca in Spanish too, which is even closer. Bovine, I think, comes from 'bovem' meaning 'bull'.
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