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To Vaccinate or Not..

To Vaccinate or Not..

Old Mar 27th 2019, 3:40 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
Public Health officials do their best to deliver scientifically-sensible & rational vaccinations to the populace in everyone's interests. Parents who choose to believe anti-vaxxer rubbish which they take verbatim from the www are at best unwise, otherwise bovine.
Handily, I believe bovine is a base for many vaccines
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 3:41 pm
  #32  
 
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
otherwise bovine.
There is a vaccine for that.

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Old Mar 27th 2019, 3:43 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Because it applies to anything given to a child against the will of the parent. Including a particular medication that the parent may have a worry about!

(As said above if the life or health of the child is at serious risk an emergency court will sit.)
Bipat, vaccines have saved countless lives. They are scientifically tested and medically proven - time and time and time again.

You might as well say well, you don't have to put a seat belt on a child if you don't want to, or you don't have to have compulsory education of children, etc. Some things are just in the public interest and for the common good, and we get them done not just out of responsibility to ourselves but also out of responsibility to others. What about an unvaccinated pregnant woman, for example? Do you know what measles might do to her developing child? This is what government is for - to act on behalf of us all for the public good.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 3:44 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Handily, I believe bovine is a base for many vaccines
Haha, yes. As well as horses & chick eggs, among other sources. But no obtuse lemmings, hehe.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 3:44 pm
  #35  
 
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Because it applies to anything given to a child against the will of the parent. Including a particular medication that the parent may have a worry about!

(As said above if the life or health of the child is at serious risk an emergency court will sit.)
If a parent refuses to allow their child to be vaccinated against known, largely preventable disease, that child should be removed into protective care.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 3:45 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Bipat, vaccines have saved countless lives. They are scientifically tested and medically proven - time and time and time again.

You might as well say well, you don't have to put a seat belt on a child if you don't want to, or you don't have to have compulsory education of children, etc. Some things are just in the public interest and for the common good, and we get them done not just out of responsibility to ourselves but also out of responsibility to others. What about an unvaccinated pregnant woman, for example? Do you know what measles might do to her developing child? This is what government is for - to act on behalf of us all for the public good.
Am I going to have to post the video of 'Storm' again?
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 3:56 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
Public Health officials do their best to deliver scientifically-sensible & rational vaccinations to the populace in everyone's interests. Parents who choose to believe anti-vaxxer rubbish which they take verbatim from the www are at best unwise, otherwise bovine. And obtuse lemmings don't help matters, either.
Yes most of the anti-vax stuff has been rubbish. That is explained to parents. The majority do then allow the vaccination.
However deaths and serious reactions happen; to suggest otherwise is 'obtuse'. Parents have the right to refuse vaccines in the UK---

(Possibly in the UK it would be important to provide meningitis B vaccine free for all age groups not just infants----the cost is too high for most to get it done privately)




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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:03 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Yes most of the anti-vax stuff has been rubbish. That is explained to parents. The majority do then allow the vaccination.
However deaths and serious reactions happen; to suggest otherwise is 'obtuse'. Parents have the right to refuse vaccines in the UK---

(Possibly in the UK it would be important to provide meningitis B vaccine free for all age groups not just infants----the cost is too high for most to get it done privately)
Of course no scientist would claim that there haven't been bad reactions amongst a tiny % of vaccination recipients, but do you seriously think that Public Health authorities would allow vaccinations where serious & deleterious reactions were commonplace? How stupid do you think PH is? Your fear-mongering rhetoric is unwarranted, & quite frankly irresponsible.

Last edited by vinegarboy; Mar 27th 2019 at 4:05 pm.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:12 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Bipat, vaccines have saved countless lives. They are scientifically tested and medically proven - time and time and time again.

You might as well say well, you don't have to put a seat belt on a child if you don't want to, or you don't have to have compulsory education of children, etc. Some things are just in the public interest and for the common good, and we get them done not just out of responsibility to ourselves but also out of responsibility to others. What about an unvaccinated pregnant woman, for example? Do you know what measles might do to her developing child? This is what government is for - to act on behalf of us all for the public good.
I know all that you are saying. However you cannot ignore the 'fact' that deaths and adverse reactions do happen however rare.
The majority of parents understand when it is explained that the risk is minute.
Those that do not want to take even the smallest risk have the legal right to refuse. (Unlike some countries the UK does not have a 'Samaritan law'.)

For the minority who do not allow vaccination, I agree that there should be compulsory quarantine for any child (or adult) with rubella, measles, chickenpox, whooping cough.

Regarding 'seatbelts' --the law is for insurance purposes also. The reason is the safety if the individual child not the safety of other children.

(LIW----I have personally vaccinated thousands of children----I would not do so without the permission of the parent(s).








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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:24 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
Of course no scientist would claim that there haven't been bad reactions amongst a tiny % of vaccination recipients, but do you seriously think that Public Health authorities would allow vaccinations where serious & deleterious reactions were commonplace? How stupid do you think PH is? Your fear-mongering rhetoric is unwarranted, & quite frankly irresponsible.
The word is not just 'bad reactions' it is serious damage and 'deaths' ! Pretending that they don't happen is foolish, however small the percentage. I am not going to provide 'links'.
It is pretence which will make parents lose trust.

Nobody has ever suggested that they are "commonplace".

I am not "fear-mongering" I am pointing out the UK law in allowing 'parents' to make the decision and suggesting that the majority of UK medics would not vaccinate against a parents will. (Having done all they could to give accurate information).
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:30 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The word is not just 'bad reactions' it is serious damage and 'deaths' ! Pretending that they don't happen is foolish, however small the percentage. I am not going to provide 'links'.
It is pretence which will make parents lose trust.

Nobody has ever suggested that they are "commonplace".

I am not "fear-mongering" I am pointing out the UK law in allowing 'parents' to make the decision and suggesting that the majority of UK medics would not vaccinate against a parents will. (Having done all they could to give accurate information).
Vaccinating medics who don't jolly parents along to do what's right, & who actively over-advocate & fear-monger should be severely rebuked by their superiors, or else outright sacked.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:39 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Handily, I believe bovine is a base for many vaccines
No sorry , Horses they deliver a cleaner sample.
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:40 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

We're off to Thailand soon and after talking with our GP (and yes, doing our own research) we're both getting tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough vaccine boosters (injection), plus our typhoid vaccine boosters (oral). We don't feel a cholera vaccine is necessary. Sensible precautions against malaria and we're good to go
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:41 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by vinegarboy View Post
Vaccinating medics who don't jolly parents along to do what's right, & who actively over-advocate & fear-monger should be severely rebuked by their superiors, or else outright sacked.
What is your definition of "jolly along"?

Yes those who "over-advocate" & "fear-monger" would be quite correctly actively rebuked.

(I suppose you realise that UK GPs are paid separately for each vaccination they do---so in their interest to promote. However as I said they do not go against a parents will.)
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Old Mar 27th 2019, 4:42 pm
  #45  
 
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Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
We're off to Thailand soon and after talking with our GP (and yes, doing our own research) we're both getting tetanus, diphtheria and whooping cough vaccine boosters (injection), plus our typhoid vaccine boosters (oral). We don't feel a cholera vaccine is necessary. Sensible precautions against malaria and we're good to go
Or you could just go to a tetanus, diphtheria, whooping cough and typhoid party. If you are lucky someone with cholera may just show up too.

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