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UK immigration post Brexit

UK immigration post Brexit

Old Mar 6th 2020, 2:11 pm
  #901  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
it should be net zero for the foreseeable future.
Nigel?

I somehow doubt it either will or would be desirable for it to come to pass.

Although the Tory Party has a stonking great majority and gets a boner every time there's an opportunity to be nasty to immigrants, they haven't shown the slightest inclination to aim for a target of nett zero. Far from it, in fact - they've made it clear they want everybody to forget about the 100,000 pledge altogether and replaced it with a rather vague expectation that doing away with FoM and not issuing residence visas for workers in low paid or low-skilled occupations (take your pick depending on the intended message of the day), nett immigration will fall. I expect they're probably right on that score, although they already appear to be playing a bit fast and loose with their stated ambitions

So if the Tories are not going to aim for nett zero - and if they were to do so by the introduction of a draconian immigration policy, I'm sure Priti Patel would be exactly the right sort of person to do it so obviously they've realised that to do so would hurt huge swathes of Tory voters and aren't going to - then the only other way it could be achieved would be to have a massive outflow along with a reduced intake. That would generally only occur during periods of extreme economic hardship, which I wouldn't recommend as a method of getting immigration down.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 2:34 pm
  #902  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
And what are those, exactly?
Less over-population and the government only accepting the type of immigrants that the population want to be here (i.e. following the democratic wishes of the electorate) rather than bowing to corporate pressure.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 2:36 pm
  #903  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
And I recall some tripe the UK government put about concerning wanting FoM between the UK and Australia.

There isn't any gravitation towards "your" model. There is a gravitation towards a load of propaganda using the word "Australia". You know, immigration / Australia? Nudge, nudge. Eh?
Why is that "tripe" in your opinion when FoM from Europe isn't?

I'm not arguing that it's a good idea and personally I don't think it would be particularly beneficial to either country but your hypocrisy on this subject is rather interesting.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 3:06 pm
  #904  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
the government only accepting the type of immigrants that the population want to be here (i.e. following the democratic wishes of the electorate) rather than bowing to corporate pressure.
The democratic wishes of which section of the population? Business people who know what they need, or Britain First / UKIP / Brexit Party / EDL?

And how, and how often would those democratic wishes be given to make the immigration system responsive to the needs of the UK? Every month or 3, annually, or at re-election time? Maybe we could have another non-binding referendum, though a binding one with defined majorities and percentage of turnout would be better.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 3:15 pm
  #905  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Which inhabitants? Rural Lincolnshire has different immigration needs than London does. Employers across the country know what they need from migrant workers that they don't get enough of from UK national workers.

That why many countries publish shortage occupation lists for immigration purposes.
All of the UK's inhabitants. It is possible for regions to have different skills in demand lists and sponsorship routes to attract people. And it's quite easy to develop visa conditions to accommodate. And if employers don't get enough from UK national workers then they should up the pay rate and offer training - not import people who are willing to do it on the cheap and while doing so put more pressure on property rental and purchase prices - burning the economic candle at both ends for those who are already at the lowest end of the socio-economic scale. Surely you can see the value in putting a stop to wage compression/freeze and simultaneously taking pressure off property rental prices??

Regarding your last question: Not many countries actually publish occupation shortage lists. Most don't really encourage immigration at all.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 3:18 pm
  #906  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
How about the UK model a system that is fit for purpose to serve the interests of the current inhabitants of the UK?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
We had one of those, but people like you voted to ditch it.
And why do you think that was?
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 3:23 pm
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
No - it should be fit for British citizens. Not employers who enjoy a rush to the bottowm with an oversupply of workers nor landlords who enjoy a rush to the top with an overdemand of tenants. Both of these harm British citizens.

What's it like to realise you've become a shill for the capitalist machine and its elites?
I agree. And how ironic that behaviour is from those who see themselves as occupying the left side of politics.

Last edited by paulry; Mar 6th 2020 at 5:09 pm. Reason: typo
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 3:32 pm
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
And I recall some tripe the UK government put about concerning wanting FoM between the UK and Australia.

There isn't any gravitation towards "your" model. There is a gravitation towards a load of propaganda using the word "Australia". You know, immigration / Australia? Nudge, nudge. Eh?
FoM between the UK and Australia was never going to happen.

Well whatever the model, one thing there is a gravitation towards is a well-managed immigration system.

Last edited by paulry; Mar 6th 2020 at 3:34 pm.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 3:33 pm
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
We absolutely did not have one of those and haven't had one of those in all the time that I've been alive.
I absolutely agree.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I'm not sure that's true since Australia buys our immigration tech and has been considering replicating our biometric visa system for years in the same way that many Asian countries replicated the biometric border control systems created by the Japanese.

These days most Australian visas are managed entirely online. The only people who submit any documents on paper or biometric data are permanent residents whereas the UK takes biometrics from everyone except visa-exempt visitors.
It's the business system rather than the tech/constituent parts. The UK government is notoriously appalling at implementing IT solutions. I wonder how much of that ineptitude is down to The Swamp.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 4:01 pm
  #911  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The democratic wishes of which section of the population? Business people who know what they need, or Britain First / UKIP / Brexit Party / EDL?
Well me for one and I'm not a member, associate or supporter of any of those parties.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 4:04 pm
  #912  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
FoM between the UK and Australia was never going to happen.

Well whatever the model, one thing there is a gravitation towards is a well-managed immigration system.
Trade minister Simon Birmingham said full free movement would not be accepted because it could cause an exodus of highly trained workers to the UK and an influx of unskilled British workers to Sydney and Melbourne
https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/au...-deal-with-uk/

Some on this forum might consider opinions like that racist or is it OK for a country to exercise stereotypes and prejudice as long as they're directed towards the English?

I would say personally though that free movement between the UK and Australia makes a damn sight more sense than free movement between the UK and Europe although I'm personally not particularly in favour of either option.

Last edited by DigitalGhost; Mar 6th 2020 at 4:07 pm.
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 4:11 pm
  #913  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Just for clarity, are Australians the "right kind of foreigners" then?
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 4:13 pm
  #914  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Just for clarity, are Australians the "right kind of foreigners" then?
God no. Never let an Aussie into your country, we'll ruin the place
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Old Mar 6th 2020, 4:18 pm
  #915  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
God no. Never let an Aussie into your country, we'll ruin the place
I think London has enough of them already.
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