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UK immigration post Brexit

UK immigration post Brexit

Old Feb 29th 2020, 1:27 pm
  #781  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Why? It happened over the Syrian refugee thing. Cameron suddenly went from a flat out refusal to reluctantly agreeing to a 20k over 5 year cap.

It happened over the Dubs agreement as well although thankfully it seems like we may have been able to get rid of that.
Those weren't because he was pandering to the left.

Sometimes, even Tories can be decent human beings with empathy.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 1:32 pm
  #782  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
No that's OK. I don't have any cyanide pills on me right now and there isn't enough whiskey in the world to numb the pain induced by reading that tripe.
As you wish.

I imagine it might actually be quite painful for you to have to accept that some of what you latecomers are now spouting as reasons for curbing immigration have been griped about for a lot longer than you are prepared to acknowledge and have long been argued by many of those on the political left.

Whilst it affords you a modicum of protection against the charges you don't want levelled against you, I don't suppose it has struck you how hypocritical it is of you to don in part the apparel of those you would normally accuse of being liberal lefty, hand-wringing, virtue-signalling SJWs (did I forget anything there? Are blue hair, beards and nose rings part of the usual spiel or are they for something different?).
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 1:38 pm
  #783  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Those weren't because he was pandering to the left.

Sometimes, even Tories can be decent human beings with empathy.
It was pandering. Randomly plucking 20,000 people from a different part of the world and bringing them to the west just because their own country is in a mess isn't showing compassion. It's showing weakness and stupidity.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 1:39 pm
  #784  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Are blue hair, beards and nose rings part of the usual spiel or are they for something different?).
Nope I have friends who dress that way and a couple of them are on the political right.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 1:52 pm
  #785  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
It was pandering. Randomly plucking 20,000 people from a different part of the world and bringing them to the west just because their own country is in a mess isn't showing compassion. It's showing weakness and stupidity.
It was exactly what you have been pleading for, on a number of fronts, in terms of refugee acceptance by the UK.

And you're going to have to wake up to the fact that the foreign policy of the UK and others are often what has led to countries being in a mess and that they must bear some of the responsibility for that. Instead of having constant snide digs at people who go on protest marches etc, perhaps you ought to think about joining in a bit next time a government of ours starts rattling sabres and agitating for military intervention abroad.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 2:16 pm
  #786  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Just as he was beginning to sound somewhat reasonable and exhibiting an IQ somewhat higher than the unskilled illegal immigrants that now nonexistently flood the country.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 2:16 pm
  #787  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
It was exactly what you have been pleading for, on a number of fronts, in terms of refugee acceptance by the UK.

And you're going to have to wake up to the fact that the foreign policy of the UK and others are often what has led to countries being in a mess and that they must bear some of the responsibility for that. Instead of having constant snide digs at people who go on protest marches etc, perhaps you ought to think about joining in a bit next time a government of ours starts rattling sabres and agitating for military intervention abroad.
No, what I want is zero refugee acceptance in the UK or as close to zero as humanly possible.

And I oppose any British military intervention for that reason. I was against the Iraq war in my younger years and I was against any action in Syria. What happens is the left campaign for the UK to do something and then when it does the government is told that they've screwed everything up and now we need to invite half of the Middle East to live here. The UK is essentially damned either way.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 2:47 pm
  #788  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
The good thing about Brexit actually happening is that we will now see whether that was actually the case. When the low-skilled EU nationals return (and at least some of them will, and they won't be replaced), we will see swarms of "economically inactive" Brits abandoning their university lecture halls, their comfortable suburban semis to which they retired early on their company pensions, their sheltered workshops and hospital beds, and the homes of their relatives for whom they are caring, to pick turnips and empty bedpans for the generous salaries that will then magically be offered.
Like many Brexit fantasies, this idea of a mad rush by Brits to fill lower paid job is hard to fathom. On the UK gov website there are some links to several sites that indicate how much better off someone would be working than on benefits. Using the numbers from my area- at 9 to 11 pounds an hour a parent with 2 children would be worse off especially including any taxes or transportation costs let alone child care. Clearly for those who actually do want to work better option stay on benefits or stay on benefits and do some part time work for cash. So if FOM movement with EU ended it does seem reasonable some wages will rise - so let us imagine for low end today paying 9 pound an hour goes up by a third to 12 pounds an hour- as you point out Watchpost, it seems fair to assume some portion maybe substantial numbers will still not enter workforce to do such work. And then I assume Brexiters also maintain in a burst of patriotism employers would not seek to recover increased costs through their prices.

To this one can add making it more cumbersome and costly to hire higher skilled workers in a timely fashion, yet for Brexiters I can only wonder how they would construe this as a benefit

.

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Old Feb 29th 2020, 4:44 pm
  #789  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
No, what I want is zero refugee acceptance in the UK or as close to zero as humanly possible.

And I oppose any British military intervention for that reason. I was against the Iraq war in my younger years and I was against any action in Syria. What happens is the left campaign for the UK to do something and then when it does the government is told that they've screwed everything up and now we need to invite half of the Middle East to live here. The UK is essentially damned either way.
You forgot to mention weapons sales to countries e.g. to Saudi so that they can smash up Yemen.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 5:09 pm
  #790  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Thairetired2016 View Post
You forgot to mention weapons sales to countries e.g. to Saudi so that they can smash up Yemen.
That would be like saying Dell are accountable if I buy a laptop and then use it to hack people's bank accounts.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 5:34 pm
  #791  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
That would be like saying Dell are accountable if I buy a laptop and then use it to hack people's bank accounts.
Not really a fair analogy. When you sell someone a weapon, it's reasonable to assume that it will be used as a weapon.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 5:51 pm
  #792  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
That would be like saying Dell are accountable if I buy a laptop and then use it to hack people's bank accounts.
If Dell sells it to you knowing you'll be using it for criminal purposes, then they can be held accountable.

Inchoate Offences

The offences

Sections 45 and 46 create offences of encouraging or assisting an offence or offences believing it, or one or more of them, will be committed. In determining 'belief' in Sections 45 and 46, prosecutors should refer to the case law on handling stolen goods, as the test is similar.

Belief is a state of mind which is more than suspicious, the word ‘belief’ is a word of ordinary usage and does not require any elaboration Treacy v DPP (1971) 55 Cr.App.R. 113. If elaboration is required, a direction approved in R v Moys (1984) 79 Cr.App.R.72 should be given, confirming that suspicion, in addition with the fact that the defendant shut his eyes to the circumstances, is not enough, although such matters were relevant to the jury’s determination of the defendant’s knowledge or belief.
If the scenario was changed to terrorism instead of hacker, there'd be anti-terrorism legislation that covers this scenario as well.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 6:20 pm
  #793  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I'm not sure that's really true. FoM has just flooded the country with low skilled and low paid labour tbh. They weren't filling a need so much as they were enabling work to do be done on the cheap and pushing wages down in the lower end of the employment market.
You're entitled to your opinion, but aside from there being little tangible evidence to support it, your assertion is inherently subjective, even as you've previously qualified.

​​​​​​For example, if there were say, 65000 "unskilled low paid foreigners", that might seem like a "flood" to some. But considering that it would constitute about 0.1% of the population, it's actually hardly a blip on the radar. I think you're squarely in hyperbole territory, ironically precisely what you accuse others of.

And what exactly is "unskilled low paid" in your opinion? Is it someone with less than a master's degree, making less than £50k? If so, you can elevate the size of your "crisis" quite a bit. It's fairly easy to move the goalpost when it's just your "opinion".

In any case, your persistence in demonizing foreigners, particularly as each irrational characterisation is summarily debunked, sheds a very questionable light on your entire diatribe. And consequently, begs the basic question of what exactly do you find so repulsive about foreigners?

OK, you might actually believe the stuff you say, and ignore the fact that it's demonstrably based on false premises, but that again begs the question of how you adopted this dogma? And what will you do when this nonexistent "crisis" is never "remedied"?

Last edited by amideislas; Feb 29th 2020 at 6:23 pm.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 7:31 pm
  #794  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
That would be like saying Dell are accountable if I buy a laptop and then use it to hack people's bank accounts.
Dell laptop purchase comparing with weapon sales to a conflict zone?
I think your fingers hit the keyboard before the brain gave the signal.
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Old Mar 1st 2020, 3:36 am
  #795  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
You're entitled to your opinion, but aside from there being little tangible evidence to support it, your assertion is inherently subjective, even as you've previously qualified.

​​​​​​For example, if there were say, 65000 "unskilled low paid foreigners", that might seem like a "flood" to some. But considering that it would constitute about 0.1% of the population, it's actually hardly a blip on the radar. I think you're squarely in hyperbole territory, ironically precisely what you accuse others of.

And what exactly is "unskilled low paid" in your opinion? Is it someone with less than a master's degree, making less than £50k? If so, you can elevate the size of your "crisis" quite a bit. It's fairly easy to move the goalpost when it's just your "opinion".

In any case, your persistence in demonizing foreigners, particularly as each irrational characterisation is summarily debunked, sheds a very questionable light on your entire diatribe. And consequently, begs the basic question of what exactly do you find so repulsive about foreigners?

OK, you might actually believe the stuff you say, and ignore the fact that it's demonstrably based on false premises, but that again begs the question of how you adopted this dogma? And what will you do when this nonexistent "crisis" is never "remedied"?
But we're not talking about 65000 people are we? We're talking about closer to ten times that number arriving on the UK's shores year after year. We have no idea how many of those are "unskilled low paid", but its likely to be at least two thirds of that total. More than 400 000. Every year. Even if its half that it is still 300 000. But whatever, it's a bit more than a blip on your radar, don't you think?
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