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UK immigration post Brexit

UK immigration post Brexit

Old Feb 28th 2020, 5:26 pm
  #751  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
It's a concern for many people. That list of people may not include you but that's just how it is.

An amnesty for illegal immigrants never works. It just encourages more people to attempt migrating illegally and rewards criminal acts.
Amnesty can work if the wording of the law is sensible----unlike India where an amnesty/fast track nationality has been given for some illegals and the words 'asylum seeker'/and 'economic migrant' were foolishly not used instead the religious groupings of each were used----now serious major violence by one group!!!!!
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Old Feb 28th 2020, 5:30 pm
  #752  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
How could you have FOM for just one group of workers-?
That's how Freedom of Movement began - with just one group of workers, those in the coal and steel industry (two groups if you want to split hairs).

It really is staggering to think that six countries that had been at war with each other only six years previously agreed to grant each others' workers freedom of movement, in the Paris agreement of 1951, yet almost seventy years later, the Brits are still "concerned" about the consequences.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
2) My suggestion FOM for all was a rhetorical question. Why though,should it be post Brexit be just for EU countries?????
Because FOM is a part of a far-reaching system of integration.

Last edited by Watchpost; Feb 28th 2020 at 5:30 pm. Reason: quoting syntax
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Old Feb 28th 2020, 5:33 pm
  #753  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Romanians are EU nationals. Exactly how are they working illegally?
Some Romanians may of course be working illegally. So may some Brits. The difference is that the former are the "wrong kind" of illegal workers.

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Sleeping rough isn't legally a crime, yet.
But if you're a Romanian rough sleeper, you're the wrong kind of rough sleeper.
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Old Feb 28th 2020, 5:43 pm
  #754  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) We are leaving membership of the EU-----How could you have FOM for just one group of workers-? Salary thresholds can be adjusted for different worker groups.
Who suggested FoM for just one group of workers?
Yes, salary threshoids can be adjusted, but the Home Office are notoriously slow at changing what isn't working.

2) My suggestion FOM for all was a rhetorical question. Why though,should it be post Brexit be just for EU countries?????
And I gave you an answer. Post Transition, there'll be no or little distinction between EU and non-EU countries. They'll all be non-UK.

3) An e-visa can be obtained within 24 hours! If workers are wanted fees can be adjusted.
Yes, they could, but when was the last time the Home Office reduced visa fees?

4)Yes numbers are relevant, however previously those with FOM you must accept had preferable chance of migration than those without and therefore there was less choice of skilled people regardless of any restriction on EU.
As we are leaving EU membership why would you want this to continue???
Preferential because we signed up to an international agreement, which also allowed Brits the same rights. But preferential does not equal dominant.
No, the UK could still have issued as many skilled workers as it chose to. Free movement only impacted that choice in reducing the number of skilled workers paying the exorbitant cost of visa fees.
Yes, we're leaving the EU. Yet again, you're suggesting I've said I want EU free movement to continue, when I accept it won't be.

5) Have you any idea of the speed of getting e-visas rather than the usual????? It is long overdue for change in the UK regardless of Brexit.
Yes. I've previously applied for and been issued with a Turkish e-visa, and am on my 2nd Canadian e-TA. Given the history of successive UK government large-scale IT projects over the years, I suspect any UK e-visa system will be massively over budget, delayed, and poorly implemented. But either way, I won't need one, so not my problem.
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Old Feb 28th 2020, 10:54 pm
  #755  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
As has been pointed out to you Morpeth----business skills are not the only skills that the UK needs!!!!
You refuse to accept that some regulation on numbers is necessary. (Why not FOM for all????).
You are obsessed with "baristas"!!!
In future any needed workers can have special visa regulations that are needed for them only.
1. I am unsure the point you are trying to make, I gave the rather common sense example of a negative to British business of post-Brexit requirements for business professionals from the EU. No where did I state or even imply that other skills were not required, and indeed referred to lower skilled workers in the same post.
2. No where did I advocate for FOM from everywhere. Nor did I ever write -hence "refuse" as you write- that some regulation on numbers needed. So again I am unsure what you are referring to. (As an aside listening to Patel even with no EU FOM, she wants to reduce the number of non-EU immigrants.)
3. You write about when workers are needed special visa regulations will magically appear in a prompt and logical manner in time to meet the need. I am unsure what alternate reality is being referred to, and even if this alternate reality represents a whole new form of timing and efficiency, the length of the process and difficulty for the government to make decisions based on market needs in a timely fashion, let alone a visa process with less roadblocks than the current one, hardly represents an improvement to the overall situation. all along the UK has had the ability to make it easier for non EU workers, since before join the EEC/EU in the first place.
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Old Feb 28th 2020, 11:46 pm
  #756  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I'm sure the Daily Mail, Express and Sun regularly report such things.... However,

Romanians are EU nationals. Exactly how are they working illegally?
Sleeping rough isn't legally a crime, yet.
Romanians aren't the only traffickers. What happened to the Irish guy who was found with 39 deceased Asians in a container?
If someone chooses to sell their body for sex and someone chooses to pay for it, as long as it's consensual, who's the victim? It's sad that a person chooses to do that to earn money, but it's one of the world's oldest professions.
​​​​​​They hang around on the street offering and competing for day labour work. Similar to how Mexicans and others do in the US. It's illegal work if no tax is being paid or registration is taking place regardless of immigration status.

Personally I have no issues with prostitution as long as it's consensual but in the UK it is isn't legal.
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Old Feb 28th 2020, 11:51 pm
  #757  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Yes. I've previously applied for and been issued with a Turkish e-visa, and am on my 2nd Canadian e-TA. Given the history of successive UK government large-scale IT projects over the years, I suspect any UK e-visa system will be massively over budget, delayed, and poorly implemented. But either way, I won't need one, so not my problem.
Not trying to be a pedantic knob but eTA isn't technically a visa and the UK has had a pilot eVisa program for certain nationalities for years already. My understanding is the plan is to extend it to eventually cover almost the whole world (excluding Irish nationals but including the EU) after Brexit in some form or another.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 12:02 am
  #758  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
​​​​​​They hang around on the street offering and competing for day labour work. Similar to how Mexicans and others do in the US. It's illegal work if no tax is being paid or registration is taking place regardless of immigration status.

Personally I have no issues with prostitution as long as it's consensual but in the UK it is isn't legal.
Actually paying for sex in the UK isn't illegal, but almost everything ancillary to paying for sex is illegal - soliciting, pimping and running a brothel (two or more prostitutes living in the same residential "unit" is deemed to be a brothel), acting as a landlord for property where prostitution is occurring, accepting any money for your living expenses from funds obtained by prostitution, etc.

Last edited by Pulaski; Feb 29th 2020 at 12:04 am.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 12:42 am
  #759  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
That has been the intention of the conservative government since 2010 because it seemed to be largely what the country wanted. Labour massively overhauled immigration controls and processes under Gordon Brown. We were one of the first major democracies to introduce a biometric visa system but by then it was too little, too late. Blair truly screwed up when it came to limiting migration from the EU and Labour's position was considered untenable.

Partly though it's a due to a weird national obsession that we have with the net migration statistic which essentially includes any of us if we return after more than a year abroad as well as newly arriving foreigners including short term residents like international students. It's quite strange and doesn't do the government any favours when publishing annual figures so I'm not really sure why they do it. I'm not really sure why they do it this way.
Net migration does not include short-term residents like international students - as those leaving after finishing their courses negate those arriving when it comes to the net figure. The net migration figures are further parsed down into UK, EU and RoW, the UK numbers are relatively small.
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 12:44 am
  #760  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Not trying to be a pedantic knob but eTA isn't technically a visa and the UK has had a pilot eVisa program for certain nationalities for years already. My understanding is the plan is to extend it to eventually cover almost the whole world (excluding Irish nationals but including the EU) after Brexit in some form or another.
Maybe technically it isn't a visa, but it fulfils almost exactly the same purpose as one.

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
​​​​​​They hang around on the street offering and competing for day labour work. Similar to how Mexicans and others do in the US. It's illegal work if no tax is being paid or registration is taking place regardless of immigration status.
And? If they're earning below the tax threshold of around £12,500 pa, or £240 per week, why would they need to pay tax? Same with the (lower) NI rates. And if the employer isn't registering them, then enforcement needs to be done on the employers, as registration in the UK for EU nationals isn't mandatory until the end of this year, when all EU nationals will need to have registered for settled or pre-settled status. No laws have been broken by these Romanians, and maybe unemployed Brits should start standing on those corners.

Personally I have no issues with prostitution as long as it's consensual but in the UK it is isn't legal.
Pulaski said it much nicer than I would of, so I'll leave it to him.

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Actually paying for sex in the UK isn't illegal, but almost everything ancillary to paying for sex is illegal - soliciting, pimping and running a brothel (two or more prostitutes living in the same residential "unit" is deemed to be a brothel), acting as a landlord for property where prostitution is occurring, accepting any money for your living expenses from funds obtained by prostitution, etc.
Very well put!
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 12:54 am
  #761  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Maybe technically it isn't a visa, but it fulfils almost exactly the same purpose as one.

And? If they're earning below the tax threshold of around £12,500 pa, or £240 per week, why would they need to pay tax? Same with the (lower) NI rates. And if the employer isn't registering them, then enforcement needs to be done on the employers, as registration in the UK for EU nationals isn't mandatory until the end of this year, when all EU nationals will need to have registered for settled or pre-settled status. No laws have been broken by these Romanians, and maybe unemployed Brits should start standing on those corners.

Pulaski said it much nicer than I would of, so I'll leave it to him.

Very well put!
That's strange, I thought they were all doctors or highly skilled builders earning so much they were a net contribution to the UK coffers?
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 1:41 am
  #762  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
That's strange, I thought they were all doctors or highly skilled builders earning so much they were a net contribution to the UK coffers?
DG said they were Romanians looking for work as day labourers... Not sure doctors work that way, and even highly-skilled builders don't work all week if the client doesn't have the money to do the next stage of the build. Around here, day labour rate for chippies and brickies is around £120 per day plus cost of materials....
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 4:31 am
  #763  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
That's how Freedom of Movement began - with just one group of workers, those in the coal and steel industry (two groups if you want to split hairs).

It really is staggering to think that six countries that had been at war with each other only six years previously agreed to grant each others' workers freedom of movement, in the Paris agreement of 1951, yet almost seventy years later, the Brits are still "concerned" about the consequences.



Because FOM is a part of a far-reaching system of integration.
In 1951, there was FOM also from Commonwealth countries, the EEC eventually became 27 EU countries---times change!!!

Just as there are good relationships, trade and otherwise with previous occupied countries so also there can be good relationships ( not federal!) between the UK and the EU!.

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Old Feb 29th 2020, 7:29 am
  #764  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
In 1951, there was FOM also from Commonwealth countries, the EEC eventually became 27 EU countries---times change!!!

Just as there are good relationships, trade and otherwise with previous occupied countries so also there can be good relationships ( not federal!) between the UK and the EU!.
You mean the "friend" who just happens to be the source of 80% of the lemons that you make lemonade from, and sell half of back to your "friend", the one you blame for everything, from your low productivity in producing the lemonade, to the crap weather. The one that you've demanded give you free membership to the club with full access to the facilities, a comprehensive waiver from any rules, and a handicap score that gives you complete advantage over a other members.

That "friend"?
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Old Feb 29th 2020, 7:47 am
  #765  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
You mean the "friend" who just happens to be the source of 80% of the lemons that you make lemonade from, and sell half of back to your "friend", the one you blame for everything, from your low productivity in producing the lemonade, to the crap weather. The one that you've demanded give you free membership to the club with full access to the facilities, a comprehensive waiver from any rules, and a handicap score that gives you complete advantage over a other members.That "friend"?
Which "friend" do you mean for lemon imports? South Africa, Argentina, Russia, India?
I was referring to the EU post Brexit relationship with.
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