Go Back  British Expats > General > Take it Outside!
Reload this Page >

UK immigration post Brexit

UK immigration post Brexit

Old Dec 9th 2019, 12:51 pm
  #31  
Dedicated European
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 5,626
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
As Europeans, I think we all retain some basic tenets. Even me.
Yes.
Expatrick is offline  
Old Dec 9th 2019, 12:52 pm
  #32  
WWLLCJD?
 
Scamp's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 23,140
Scamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
I retain some basic tenets of Christianity - but have moved far away from much of the dogma & doctrine.
Well put, me too. Someone once said or wrote; "I don't subscribe to any religion". I thought it was spot on.
Scamp is offline  
Old Dec 9th 2019, 1:46 pm
  #33  
Who - me?
 
Red Eric's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Arcos de Valdevez "Onde Portugal se fez"
Posts: 11,318
Red Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond reputeRed Eric has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
If we Brexit, in a decade's time there will be many Indian and Chinese immigrants here, simply based on their huge populations and consequent high skill levels. Is that better than Eastern Europeans, debateble. At least neither the Chinese nor Indians are overly religious.
Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Why did you mention the 'I' word?
Yes, Shard.

It's not "If", it's "When"
Red Eric is offline  
Old Dec 9th 2019, 2:00 pm
  #34  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,060
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Scamp brought it up. Religious observance and religious fundamentalism are too different things. From what I've seen of Indians in Britain over the past fifty years, their religion is colourful and reasonably benign. It seems more cultural than anything else. Hmmm...I wonder if there's anyone on BE that might know about this.

Are you religious EP?
You realise that India is the second largest Muslim country?

One of my tenants is an off-the-boat Indian Muslim, he asked me to put a door between the lounge and kitchen so when his friends came to visit they wouldn't be able to see his wife in the kitchen.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Dec 9th 2019, 2:06 pm
  #35  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,060
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

The reality is that the UK needs a net-zero immigration policy for at least the next five years in order to allow housing supply & demand to come into balance and to incentivise companies to invest in automation and not cheap labour, enabling wages for the lower orders to strengthen.

During this five year period immigration should primarily be aimed at high and at-need skills (and I don't mean curry chefs), followed by some well-interrogated family reunification (i.e. no arranged marriages) and then a smaller mix of student and refugee/asylum. Skills and family should have a sensible income requirement, likely north of £30Kpa.

At typical current rates of emigration this would permit some 250,000 immigrants per year of skilled, family, student and asylum.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Dec 9th 2019, 2:12 pm
  #36  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,060
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Fine, if you're a doctor, as I think you said your family had a number of. The caller was talking about his experience in the US, as a coder I think, something private sector, where he was very aware that his work permit was tied to a company, and therefore he was very aware he had to follow company demands or potentially lose his status. He wasn't able to easily switch employers as someone European can do now.
As it should be - the sole reason he was permitted the luxury of being able to live and work in the US was because of the job required by that company. I was on an H1B visa for several years and had the same experience, doubtless Scamp has a similar situation in Dubai (typically a month to find another employer who will sponsor the H1B if you leave the first sponsor). He knew that when he applied and decided it was acceptable to him.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Dec 9th 2019, 2:39 pm
  #37  
Reasonable Bitch
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 16,785
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

That all sounds very convincing, blueboy. Until you look at the basic premise that there is some kind of immigration "crisis" of some exceptional magnitude, of which there is not (statistically anyway). Your opinion may be that there is a "crisis", but that's subjective.

But you also fail to consider the true source of the "problem"; Post-war England was in dire need of foreign labour, both skilled and unskilled to rebuild its severely damaged infrastructure and economy, and as it did in the war, leveraged what remained of the "Empire" to import that labour from it. And that changed the demographics substantially. It wasn't the EU, nor FOM, although as an EU member, England enjoyed the gift of free access to not only a far larger labour pool as the empire dismantled, but also free unfettered access to a market 7 times its size. And that's precisely how it managed to punch well above the weight of a modest island nation, following the collapse of the empire.
​​​​​
So, as much as you might want to believe that leaving the EU will somehow "solve" this rather imaginary crisis, what you also fail to consider is the consequences of the remedy. And ironically, if England was so fearful of immigrants, it's had plenty of tools available to it, which it never chose to employ.

Yes, Brexit is very likely to happen, but it won't "solve" anything really. Just decades of continued politico-economic chaos while England attempts to figure out who it really is.

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 9th 2019 at 4:08 pm.
amideislas is offline  
Old Dec 9th 2019, 2:42 pm
  #38  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,114
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The reality is that the UK needs a net-zero immigration policy for at least the next five years in order to allow housing supply & demand to come into balance and to incentivise companies to invest in automation and not cheap labour, enabling wages for the lower orders to strengthen.

During this five year period immigration should primarily be aimed at high and at-need skills (and I don't mean curry chefs), followed by some well-interrogated family reunification (i.e. no arranged marriages) and then a smaller mix of student and refugee/asylum. Skills and family should have a sensible income requirement, likely north of £30Kpa.

At typical current rates of emigration this would permit some 250,000 immigrants per year of skilled, family, student and asylum.
'Foreign' students pay full fees. Universities (and some private schools) would have financial difficulty without them.

Bipat is offline  
Old Dec 9th 2019, 6:05 pm
  #39  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,060
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
'Foreign' students pay full fees. Universities (and some private schools) would have financial difficulty without them.
Indeed, although constant run-rate would give us net zero - i.e. those arriving this year negated by those leaving.
Cape Blue is offline  
Old Dec 10th 2019, 3:38 am
  #40  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6,113
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
There's two different schools of thought here. The realistic view, and the public view.

When they unleashed their anti-foreigner campaign as a means to "democratically" push forward their ideological platform, they hadn't taken into account the necessity for immigration. Nor the unlikelyhood of ever reaching such "targets ".

When that dissonance became apparent, they're now faced with having to backtrack what they've led the electorate to believe, and that's politically dangerous. So now, they have to play it down by avoiding those terms, while making more vague immigration promises that can be deflected later on.

Spot on... The immigration issue was a complete red herring ,used to persuade certain people to vote for rather unpleasant characters . It was inflamed by TV coverage of the poor people trapped at Calais.Those refugees fleeing for their lives during the ( American) bombing of their homes. All grist to that handy political mill. EU,immigrants became mixed up with them ,again handily for the Brexiteers. The government really doesn't want to have to discuss immigration .They know it was a fat lie in the first place .Like the ludicrous idea that the ' UK is full'.Its not full, its stagnant. a museum that lives in the past ,and refuses to move forward.Why is that do we think?
GeniB is offline  
Old Dec 10th 2019, 4:28 am
  #41  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 850
Thairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
If we Brexit, in a decade's time there will be many Indian and Chinese immigrants here, simply based on their huge populations and consequent high skill levels. Is that better than Eastern Europeans, debateble. At least neither the Chinese nor Indians are overly religious.
Post Brexit you pick high skill Eastern Europeans.
Thairetired2016 is offline  
Old Dec 10th 2019, 4:28 am
  #42  
WWLLCJD?
 
Scamp's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 23,140
Scamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond reputeScamp has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
As it should be - the sole reason he was permitted the luxury of being able to live and work in the US was because of the job required by that company. I was on an H1B visa for several years and had the same experience, doubtless Scamp has a similar situation in Dubai (typically a month to find another employer who will sponsor the H1B if you leave the first sponsor). He knew that when he applied and decided it was acceptable to him.
Indeed. It's not the nicest feeling on earth to know you've got a month to pack up your life and **** off but golly it's worth the cash.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
'Foreign' students pay full fees. Universities (and some private schools) would have financial difficulty without them.
What have Labour said about fees for normal UK folk? Will they continue to pay or are they being scrapped? They might need foreign students even more.
Scamp is offline  
Old Dec 10th 2019, 4:28 am
  #43  
SUPER MODERATOR
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 63,979
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
If we Brexit, in a decade's time there will be many Indian and Chinese immigrants here, simply based on their huge populations and consequent high skill levels. Is that better than Eastern Europeans, debateble. At least neither the Chinese nor Indians are overly religious.
According to some here in the aforementioned Australia, the Chinese are busy buying up every last acre and building in order to take us over. Be careful what you wish for
moneypenny20 is offline  
Old Dec 10th 2019, 4:38 am
  #44  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 850
Thairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond reputeThairetired2016 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
You realise that India is the second largest Muslim country?

One of my tenants is an off-the-boat Indian Muslim, he asked me to put a door between the lounge and kitchen so when his friends came to visit they wouldn't be able to see his wife in the kitchen.
We had a Pakistani colleague who often invited my husband for dinner. The couple were British, grown up in Kenya, both had a university degree.. Dinner was for men only, the wife had to stay in the kitchen. She sat on the floor to eat. Old habits die hard.
Thairetired2016 is offline  
Old Dec 10th 2019, 10:21 am
  #45  
Democracy advocate
 
Cape Blue's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 11,060
Cape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond reputeCape Blue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Spot on... The immigration issue was a complete red herring ,used to persuade certain people to vote for rather unpleasant characters . It was inflamed by TV coverage of the poor people trapped at Calais.Those refugees fleeing for their lives during the ( American) bombing of their homes. All grist to that handy political mill. EU,immigrants became mixed up with them ,again handily for the Brexiteers. The government really doesn't want to have to discuss immigration .They know it was a fat lie in the first place .Like the ludicrous idea that the ' UK is full'.Its not full, its stagnant. a museum that lives in the past ,and refuses to move forward.Why is that do we think?
The UK's population has surged by several million over the past 20 years, it's countries like Germany that have "stagnated".

The UK is much more multicultural than most EU countries, it is also more welcoming than most.

People in Calais often aren't refugees coming from Syria etc, they are economic migrants (predominantly young men) from Africa.

It is true that the elites - both political and economic - don't want to reduce persistent high net immigration - they benefit from it and it flatters GDP (but not most other measures).

Cape Blue is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.