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UK immigration post Brexit

UK immigration post Brexit

Old Jan 17th 2020, 9:19 am
  #151  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) Oh Morpeth!!!!!! -------Your opinion-------"Especially when it is based on fantasy"-------as you said "it doesn't mean that is a correct opinion"!!

2) Then make the system be less cumbersome for all skilled workers rather than just some.

3) This has been discussed so many times-----in order to keep overall numbers at a manageable level ----if one group has FOM then other groups must have restrictions.

Are you of the opinion then that there should be FOM for both EU and non-EU higher skilled workers post Brexit? If not why not? It would seem an ideal solution.
Fantasy in believing all the extra funds promised for the NHS. Fantasy that ALL FTA agreements will necessarily be a benefit, without considering experiences of trade agreements that have often been a disaster for one party of another. One could go on and on about Brexit fantasies.

I would daresay a fantasy that UK immigration policy has been primarily determined by this idea it is set because of EU FOM rules. I predict many if not most Brexit voters will continue to be displeased about immigration rules no matter how they are set. Already heard one minister on BBC stating overall numbers of non EU immigrants may be reduced after Brexit- whether happens or not hardly supports your repeated assertion that immigration policy set primarily because of the numbers coming in under FOM.

At least questionable if removing FOM with the EU will have a major impact on issues such as NHS and Housing. Debatable if will result in dramatic change for lower wage occupations. Not debatable the benefits being lost for some UK pensioners, students, workers, and university research programs, from leaving the EU. At least questionable if leaving the EU will not reduce UK world influence, and for that matter prospect of Scotland leaving the UK. I am the first to admit there may be some benefits from Brexit- my problem is Brexiters then try to portray on every issue it is a benefit by ignoring reality.

Again, the UK has always had the ability to amend rules for skilled workers. The fact they have not done so by itself should be sufficient to point out that immigration policy is not always or even primarily set by logic but by political considerations- and that for some amount, I suspect mainly Brexit voters, simply they want less foreigners coming into the country.


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Old Jan 17th 2020, 9:40 am
  #152  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Not subjective at all, a very simple question that as of just I haven't found any Brexiter who can answer- if a business needs a highly skilled or experienced worker, and can't find in UK, how is it a benefit to make it more cumbersome and more costly to bring in a skilled worker from the EU ?
No, it's entirely subjective - based on whether you perceive the "benefit" of a particular course of action should apply to the business in question or to something else altogether, such as wider society as a whole. Your opinions and values aren't the only ones which matter.
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 11:05 am
  #153  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
No, it's entirely subjective - based on whether you perceive the "benefit" of a particular course of action should apply to the business in question or to something else altogether, such as wider society as a whole. Your opinions and values aren't the only ones which matter.


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Old Jan 17th 2020, 12:54 pm
  #154  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
No, it's entirely subjective - based on whether you perceive the "benefit" of a particular course of action should apply to the business in question or to something else altogether, such as wider society as a whole. Your opinions and values aren't the only ones which matter.
Seems like semantics to avoid answering the question. So (a) is it a benefit for a particular business (b) and/or society as a whole ?





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Old Jan 17th 2020, 12:59 pm
  #155  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Seems like semantics to avoid answering the question. So (a) is it a benefit for a particular business (b) and/or society as a whole ?
It all depends on your point of view.

You seem to have fallen into the trap that a lot of Remain activists have of believing that this issue is all about inalienable, quantifiable and objective facts. It's not. It has always been about competing personal opinions.
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 1:09 pm
  #156  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
It all depends on your point of view.

You seem to have fallen into the trap that a lot of Remain activists have of believing that this issue is all about inalienable, quantifiable and objective facts. It's not. It has always been about competing personal opinions.
...in your opinion.
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 1:11 pm
  #157  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
You seem to have fallen into the trap that a lot of Remain activists have of believing that this issue is all about inalienable, quantifiable and objective facts. It's not. It has always been about competing personal opinions.
In a sort of "Liverpool, Liverpool...champions, champions" - "Rochdale, we're the greatest football team the world has ever seen" sort of way.

Both opinions but one of them's just that little bit more likely than the other.
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 1:39 pm
  #158  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
...in your opinion.
I asked for that. Well played sir.

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
In a sort of "Liverpool, Liverpool...champions, champions" - "Rochdale, we're the greatest football team the world has ever seen" sort of way.

Both opinions but one of them's just that little bit more likely than the other.
Even if we accept that premise, it doesn't mean very much if enough people believe, sincerely and wholeheartedly, that Rochdale is the greatest team ever.
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 1:50 pm
  #159  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

All you need is to "believe". Just like in the movies.

For example, lots of people "believe" that investing their life savings in an English pub in Benidorm is a brilliant idea. No need to listen to "experts" or anyone who's done that. No sireee. All you need is to "believe".
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 1:54 pm
  #160  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
All you need is to "believe". Just like in the movies.

For example, lots of people "believe" that investing their life savings in an English pub in Benidorm is a brilliant idea. No need to listen to "experts" or anyone who's done that. No sireee. All you need is to "believe".
Why do you care what anybody else wants to believe? Let them get on with it and reap what they sow.

You didn't invest your life savings in a Benidorm pub did you?
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 2:06 pm
  #161  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Wouldn't you find it amusing if I did?
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 2:12 pm
  #162  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Why do you care what anybody else wants to believe? Let them get on with it and reap what they sow.

You didn't invest your life savings in a Benidorm pub did you?
Acting on false belief is fine as long as the believer is the only one who reaps what they sow.
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 2:29 pm
  #163  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Acting on false belief is fine as long as the believer is the only one who reaps what they sow.
Nice theory, but doesn't work in an interconnected society comprised of millions of individuals. Part of life is dealing with the inconvenient effects of other people's decisions.
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 3:02 pm
  #164  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

So, you're actually fully aware that Brexit has no upside for anybody? Yet you still "believe"?
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Old Jan 17th 2020, 3:06 pm
  #165  
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Default Re: UK immigration post Brexit

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
So, you're actually fully aware that Brexit has no upside for anybody? Yet you still "believe"?
Well not me personally, but those in favour had the numbers when it really mattered, so here we are.
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