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Tories in chaos

Tories in chaos

Old Sep 27th 2021, 5:20 pm
  #13981  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

So they knew it was coming :


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Old Sep 27th 2021, 5:27 pm
  #13982  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
So it wasn't just the lack of pandemic planning and resources the government ignored it's own reports on then....

The Tories should be made to own this, but Starmer won't do it, neither will most of the Tory MPs.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 5:43 pm
  #13983  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
So it wasn't just the lack of pandemic planning and resources the government ignored it's own reports on then....

The Tories should be made to own this, but Starmer won't do it, neither will most of the Tory MPs.
Never seen a country in chaos like this and no resignations or even taking the blame at all.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 5:44 pm
  #13984  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Yes, the driver shortage has been developing for years, from what I've read, and brexit and covid have merely accelerated and highlighted this, making the problems more acute. The same goes for the NHS crisis, the housing crisis, the care home crisis, the youth violence and exclusion crisis, and no doubt more that I just haven't thought of here.

And yet we still go on putting the same people back into Westminster.

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Old Sep 27th 2021, 6:17 pm
  #13985  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And yet we still go on putting the same people back into Westminster.
Yes, it's a variation on the definition of madness isn't it, but we are where we are, the asylum is filling up.

In the UK we used to be content in the notion that at least one of the parties was on our side but the divisions between them have become so blurred that it's plain that the only side they're on is their own, it was always thus but it just didn't feel like it.

FPTP is an excellent system if you can martial your troops to vote, but you must have a leadership that breaks through the shell of indifference to stir up emotion and can you describe Starmer as a charismatic leader in any sense of the word?

Elections are there to be won and low voter turnouts demonstrate the potential untapped voting resource but losing support by banishing members you disagree with will simply lose you elections far into the future.

The title of this thread is 'Tories in Chaos', but I suspect they know that all the tories have to do to win the next election is absolutely nothing, the labour party will do it all for them.

RIP John Smith, we all miss you.




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Old Sep 27th 2021, 6:42 pm
  #13986  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

No effective opposition.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 6:43 pm
  #13987  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
In the UK we used to be content in the notion that at least one of the parties was on our side but the divisions between them have become so blurred that it's plain that the only side they're on is their own, it was always thus but it just didn't feel like it.
It doesn't help that the two main parties are different shades of blue these days...

At least Labour under Corbyn tried to be different to the Tories, and nearly succeeded except for factions own his own party.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 7:47 pm
  #13988  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
The title of this thread is 'Tories in Chaos', but I suspect they know that all the tories have to do to win the next election is absolutely nothing, the labour party will do it all for them.

RIP John Smith, we all miss you.
It will be curious to see if there are any voices of discord at the Tory party conference.
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 7:49 pm
  #13989  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by philat98 View Post
It will be curious to see if there are any voices of discord at the Tory party conference.

Don't they all get bought off come to some sort of agreement beforehand?
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Old Sep 27th 2021, 10:26 pm
  #13990  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
It doesn't help that the two main parties are different shades of blue these days...

At least Labour under Corbyn tried to be different to the Tories, and nearly succeeded except for factions own his own party.

I would tend to agree with this.
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Old Sep 28th 2021, 9:53 am
  #13991  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
At least Labour under Corbyn tried to be different
I think we all need to move on and accept that the resounding majority handed to the Tories goes to show that people DO NOT want an anti-Semitic, communist party in power.
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Old Sep 28th 2021, 10:04 am
  #13992  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I think we all need to move on and accept that the resounding majority handed to the Tories goes to show that people DO NOT want an anti-Semitic, communist party in power.
There are far more extremist, anti-semitic, homophobic and anti islamist people in the Tory party, and they are led by someone who holds the same views, even put them into print, BUT the members of the Tory party are backed up by a lack of being held to account by the media, papers and TV, which are refusing to question ministers and ask probing questions. One of the worst is the BBC political boss, Laura Kuenssberg, who seems to be Johnson's biggest fan, and has never said anything against him.
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Old Sep 28th 2021, 10:41 am
  #13993  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I think we all need to move on and accept that the resounding majority handed to the Tories goes to show that people DO NOT want an anti-Semitic, communist party in power.
The Labour party hasn't ever been a Communist party in at least the last 40 years, no matter who the leader was. And if Corbyn's Labour was Communist, so is Starmer's, because the party hasn't changed that much.

As for antisemitism, I don't believe Labour were an antisemitic party, but I do accept there were a minority of members who have said or done some unacceptable things.

What did you think of the EHRC report into it?
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Old Sep 28th 2021, 10:44 am
  #13994  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I think we all need to move on and accept that the resounding majority handed to the Tories goes to show that people DO NOT want an anti-Semitic, communist party in power.
Oh boy.. I'm certainly no labour fan, and they certainly don't have any electoral advantage over the Tories, but they're about as far from "communism" as any left leaning party could be. In fact, it's no longer clear to me where they sit exactly. They just appear rudderless.

I'm also no Corbyn fan, but I believe he was at least genuine in his convictions, and did a pretty good job of rallying the party. Unfortunately, far too left wing for the majority of the electorate. I suspect that's where you get the "communist" label. I'm a bit sceptical about the anti Semitic thing, but surely some exist in all parties. Rooting them out for political purposes could also be a tactic used against the Tories (or any other party), probably quite successfully.
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Old Sep 28th 2021, 11:01 am
  #13995  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Oh come on you lot, I was just having fun.

The anti-semitism thing popped up in a news article I read last night, I was astounded it's still being discussed by Labour themselves. How that has not been put to bed is beyond me, it makes it so obvious that it is/was an issue they have and isn't just going to disappear.
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