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Tories in chaos

Tories in chaos

Old Nov 16th 2018, 2:53 pm
  #751  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
You equate visa free travel (checking out the Eiffel Tower or something) with the right to actually reside and work in another country? How very odd.
He forgot to compare EU citizenship with USA citizenship ... free to move to, live and work or retire in another EU country or in the USA in another State.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 3:08 pm
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
You equate visa free travel (checking out the Eiffel Tower or something) with the right to actually reside and work in another country? How very odd.
It’s a convenience for a tiny number of Brits, nothing more.

Last edited by BritInParis; Nov 16th 2018 at 3:14 pm.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 3:40 pm
  #753  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
It’s a convenience for a tiny number of Brits, nothing more.


It's a convenience for the entire population.

How about we close the British Museum...it would only affect a tiny number.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 4:06 pm
  #754  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
I think you might enjoy the "long read" in today's Guardian, 007Steve. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-fintan-otoole O'Toole nicely traces the genesis of the twisted paranoia driving the extreme Brexiteers and much of their flock.
Many thanks Novocastrian.
Sadly it fairly defines the antiquated mindset of so many little-Englanders these days controlled as they are by a small clique of right wing revisionists and opposing imaginary socialists.
What I find really worrying is the 'labelling' that now seems to have become the norm for any kind of independent thought in the UK these days. Readily categorised and howled down as unpatriotic or anti-Brit, the English alt-right have managed to portray any deviation from their belief system as extremism, while in truth such eminates from them. Tribalism in it's true new colours.
Those who are wide awake will be making plans to quit imo .
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 4:37 pm
  #755  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
Many thanks Novocastrian.
Sadly it fairly defines the antiquated mindset of so many little-Englanders these days controlled as they are by a small clique of right wing revisionists and opposing imaginary socialists.
What I find really worrying is the 'labelling' that now seems to have become the norm for any kind of independent thought in the UK these days. Readily categorised and howled down as unpatriotic or anti-Brit, the English alt-right have managed to portray any deviation from their belief system as extremism, while in truth such eminates from them. Tribalism in it's true new colours.
Those who are wide awake will be making plans to quit imo .
Yes, the "independent thought" of the British who voted 'leave' because they viewed the 'world' as being more than just 27 European countries and wanting freedom from restrictions is seen by Remainers as unpatriotic and anti-Brit!
It is understandable that those who lived through or had relatives killed in the two WWs would have negative thoughts about German politics.

Have you read the Fintan 'O'Toole articles about immigration--there he seems to consider Europeans including British as having similar mindsets?
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 5:31 pm
  #756  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
He forgot to compare EU citizenship with USA citizenship ... free to move to, live and work or retire in another EU country or in the USA in another State.
That's because they aren't remotely the same. US citizenship is a right granted by a federal sovereign state.

The EU isn't a sovereign state, federal or otherwise, and we're often told by Europhiles on here that it has no plans to be one either. "EU citizenship" is a myth, and I repeat that it conveys no inalienable rights. It's simply a label for a set of privileges that are granted by agreement - which is exactly the same basis as the ESTA or ETA programs I mentioned earlier. When the agreement ends, so do the privileges.

Last edited by materialcontroller; Nov 16th 2018 at 6:07 pm.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 5:34 pm
  #757  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Yes, the "independent thought" of the British who voted 'leave' because they viewed the 'world' as being more than just 27 European countries and wanting freedom from restrictions is seen by Remainers as unpatriotic and anti-Brit!


Any proof of that ?



It is understandable that those who lived through or had relatives killed in the two WWs would have negative thoughts about German politics.

Haters gonna hate.

My father was captured by the Germans and still, when I came home with a German boyfriend he was accepted !



Have you read the Fintan 'O'Toole articles about immigration--there he seems to consider Europeans including British as having similar mindsets?
...
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 5:45 pm
  #758  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Anyway, getting back to the crux of the matter, which is the ongoing chaotic Tory shambles; in the event of a no confidence vote on PM May, which possibility worries you more:

a) She wins and gets a further 12 month free pass in the top job
or
b) She loses and someone potentially much worse takes the reins.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 6:07 pm
  #759  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
...
The quote system doesn't seem to work! For Annetje's post.

1) The evidence------ on these Brexit threads. (I have been called that many times on threads!!)

2) I said nervous of German politics not people. I have known several German POWs who stayed on in UK after the last war, (now passed away), also several families of those who married in Germany. Indian relatives who have German business partners, studied in Germany, or married German people---and who have stayed with us when in the UK.

Have you read 'The Past is Myself' by Christabel Bielenberg. An interesting autobiography.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 6:09 pm
  #760  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Anyway, getting back to the crux of the matter, which is the ongoing chaotic Tory shambles; in the event of a no confidence vote on PM May, which possibility worries you more:
Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post

a) She wins and gets a further 12 month free pass in the top job
or
b) She loses and someone potentially much worse takes the reins.

In terms of Brexit, as far as I can see it makes no difference if May's unseated and the parliamentary makeup remains the same. That's where everything is going to be decided. If a headbanger comes in touting a no deal, it'll be voted down.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 6:17 pm
  #761  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
In terms of Brexit, as far as I can see it makes no difference if May's unseated and the parliamentary makeup remains the same. That's where everything is going to be decided. If a headbanger comes in touting a no deal, it'll be voted down.
Point taken Eric, but as this isn't strictly a Brexit thread, I was thinking more of the overall ramifications for the UK generally.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 6:23 pm
  #762  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Ramifications for the UK generally are always bad with Conservative governments but I think we've been here before with the possibility of … er … "controversial" potential leadership candidates and what passes for good sense in that party has usually prevailed.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 7:15 pm
  #763  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
... When the agreement ends, so do the privileges.
So when will the rights to live and work in a different state of America end?
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 7:20 pm
  #764  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

The Americans are really stupid. Foreigners like Minnesotans should have to apply for visas to enter or live in Kansas. Or Arkansas. Or Texas. Also hard borders. Customs; check each and every one of those lorries. They're probably full of Mexicans anyway.
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Old Nov 16th 2018, 7:24 pm
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
So when will the rights to live and work in a different state of America end?
Totally irrelevant to the point I made.
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