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Tories in chaos

Tories in chaos

Old Jun 14th 2019, 6:25 pm
  #2266  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post

Just ignorant, following the elite remainiac herd and scared of change.

Most of the world just admire us and our bravery in shedding the oppressive EU yoke and reaching for freedom.
There has to be some sort of prize for how many metaphors you can mix in one short post.
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 6:33 pm
  #2267  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
There has to be some sort of prize for how many metaphors you can mix in one short post.
It's a banner day for those of us playing wank word bingo though. I've already won a pair of compression socks, and I'm holding out for a shiny new hearing aid.
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 7:08 pm
  #2268  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
It's a banner day for those of us playing wank word bingo though. I've already won a pair of compression socks, and I'm holding out for a shiny new hearing aid.
You grab that brass ring, matey.
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 7:13 pm
  #2269  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
You grab that brass ring, matey.
I'll need that to help myself out of the chair.
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 7:27 pm
  #2270  
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 8:01 pm
  #2271  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
It's a banner day for those of us playing wank word bingo though. I've already won a pair of compression socks, and I'm holding out for a shiny new hearing aid.
Oy, celtic fringe, stobbit!!
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 9:03 pm
  #2272  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Oy, celtic fringe, stobbit!!
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 9:26 pm
  #2273  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
How many checkpoints will be needed to handle the 200 / hour?

And your answer is .....?
Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Ah, this is the evasion prior to the admission of a "genuine misunderstanding"!

Your original point of no delay is clearly ridiculous.
Why don't you just tell us how many extra checkpoints will be required and explain how this will be a problem instead of the constant ill-informed snark?
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Old Jun 14th 2019, 9:31 pm
  #2274  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
And a queue is a good place to consider flow dynamics....

If you have a checkout queue at Tesco, and the customers take an average of 4-5 mins each to be served, it's easy enough to open more checkouts when its busier because the checkouts are set up for that and there are already workers on other departments who are checkout-trained. Simples.

Customs posts at ferry ports don't have the extra inspection bays or staff to hand, and won't have by October. The additional bays take room the ports don't have available, and staff need to be trained.
For starters, unlike Tesco, the Ports know exactly when their customers are arriving and can staff accordingly.

The backup solution is to sample vehicles at a lower rate for a while, as they only inspect 2% of non-EU deliveries as it is perhaps they could decide to inspect 0.5% of EU ones for a period being that they inspect almost none now.

Simples.
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Old Jun 15th 2019, 5:19 am
  #2275  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Yes, we'll need more inspection bays - that's not a cost for Honda.
No, it'll be a massive increase in cost for the UK Treasury, who will collect more taxes from the public via HMRC to recoup the money.

Can you check your 10,000 trucks an hour - seems high to me. The Guardian says the Port handles 2.6M trucks a year - if half are coming in that would be 1.3M /365 days/24 hours = 150 an hour coming in. I suspect your 10,000 is per day both ways and therefore around 200 per hour inwards.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-brexit-delays

You'll note that unlike your fellow travellers, I am not "dissing" you for the 10,000 number, I assume it's a genuine error and no big issue as we try and discuss the issue and get to the nub, shame the rest of the remainiacs have to be so petty about my first estimate of 600 engines per truckload.
No, it wasn't an error. You just failed to continue highlighting the next part of what I actually stated.

All so that we can continue to put 15 trucks through in the same amount of time we do already. And this would need to happen on both sides of the Irish border as well under a 'no deal'. Roughly 10,000 trucks pass through Dover every hour, and if we take half that as trucks coming in, that's a hell of a knock-on in delays if you're the 10,000th truck. And roughly 5,900 trucks cross the Irish border per day, say half coming to NI makes 2,950. That's a lot of infrastructure along a 310-mile open border.
Note that the checking rate for non-EU containers coming into the UK appears to be around 2%, so I'm not sure we will be holding up all 200 per hour of these trucks, perhaps it will be 4 per hour?


https://www.britishports.org.uk/syst...time_ports.pdf
Container ports operate differently to ferry ports in the way vehicles are selected for checks.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
No point - there will be no delay, we'll flex the number of checkpoints, the location of checkpoints and the percentage of vehicles checked accordingly. It's really not that difficult. Remainiacs seem such Debbie Downers, always desperately looking for a negative when simple solutions abound.
I've explained a few times that the ports don't have the space to flex the numbers of checkpoints. Take a look at the areas adjacent to the major ports and show us where the additional checkpoints could be located. Bearing in mind thatto maintain the current flow, you're going to need 10-15 x the number of current checkpoints at each port.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Why don't you just tell us how many extra checkpoints will be required and explain how this will be a problem instead of the constant ill-informed snark?
10-15 x the current number at each port. Roughly. I think I've pointed out the issues a few times in the las 24hrs.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
For starters, unlike Tesco, the Ports know exactly when their customers are arriving and can staff accordingly.
Tesco knows when it's customer are likely to be in store, and their staffing levels adjusted regularly. Most larger stores take £1-2 million per week, and Tesco need customer flowing freely through the checkouts in order to take that money.

The backup solution is to sample vehicles at a lower rate for a while, as they only inspect 2% of non-EU deliveries as it is perhaps they could decide to inspect 0.5% of EU ones for a period being that they inspect almost none now.

Simples.
Ah, so you've moved on from checking all vehicles, to checking even less than we do for non-EU..That's #TakingBackControl alright.

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Old Jun 15th 2019, 12:44 pm
  #2276  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
No, it'll be a massive increase in cost for the UK Treasury, who will collect more taxes from the public via HMRC to recoup the money.

No, it wasn't an error. You just failed to continue highlighting the next part of what I actually stated.

Container ports operate differently to ferry ports in the way vehicles are selected for checks.

I've explained a few times that the ports don't have the space to flex the numbers of checkpoints. Take a look at the areas adjacent to the major ports and show us where the additional checkpoints could be located. Bearing in mind thatto maintain the current flow, you're going to need 10-15 x the number of current checkpoints at each port.

10-15 x the current number at each port. Roughly. I think I've pointed out the issues a few times in the las 24hrs.

Tesco knows when it's customer are likely to be in store, and their staffing levels adjusted regularly. Most larger stores take £1-2 million per week, and Tesco need customer flowing freely through the checkouts in order to take that money.

Ah, so you've moved on from checking all vehicles, to checking even less than we do for non-EU..That's #TakingBackControl alright.
Just so I'm clear, when you say "Roughly 10,000 trucks pass through Dover every hour"and I point-out that the number is wrong and it's "10,000 per day" - you think your comment is not an error? You're so desperate to argue with me you'll argue black is white and an hour is a day? Triggered!

At 200 inbound vehicles per hour in Dover (no, not your 10,000/hr) and a 2% sample rate as is currently done for non-EU imports, we would have 4 trucks per hour to check, 15 mins each and that's just one extra station - doesn't seem like a heavy burden. Bit different than your made-up 10-15 x the existing stations you seem to have pulled out of nowhere.

It won't be a "massive" cost, an extra station manned by two people 24/7 would be maybe 8 staff on say £40K pa = £320K pa - the tariffs levied on the deliveries will more than pay for that, heck we give the EU £200M a week so this extra cost in Dover would be 15 mins of our EU payments for a years worth of checking.

I'm sure ferry ports can emulate container ports in vehicle checking if it's more efficient.

There's plenty of space at the ports, it doesn't take a lot of thought to reexamine the layouts to permit more stations.

The "taking back control" meme frequently used by remainiacs is amusing, so badly triggered you'll use it everywhere. It would be checking more than we currently do for EU deliveries, so it would be taking back control if that is your focus.
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Old Jun 15th 2019, 1:10 pm
  #2277  
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The problem is what happens in Calais rather than Dover.
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Old Jun 15th 2019, 2:27 pm
  #2278  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Just so I'm clear, when you say "Roughly 10,000 trucks pass through Dover every hour"and I point-out that the number is wrong and it's "10,000 per day" - you think your comment is not an error? You're so desperate to argue with me you'll argue black is white and an hour is a day? Triggered!
I'll go back and double-check the source of my numbers.

At 200 inbound vehicles per hour in Dover (no, not your 10,000/hr) and a 2% sample rate as is currently done for non-EU imports, we would have 4 trucks per hour to check, 15 mins each and that's just one extra station - doesn't seem like a heavy burden. Bit different than your made-up 10-15 x the existing stations you seem to have pulled out of nowhere.
Like I said previously, if 15 vehicles currently pass through the checks in 15 minutes, and if future checks will take 15 minutes each, you'll need 15 bays to maintain the same throughput.

It won't be a "massive" cost, an extra station manned by two people 24/7 would be maybe 8 staff on say £40K pa = £320K pa - the tariffs levied on the deliveries will more than pay for that, heck we give the EU £200M a week so this extra cost in Dover would be 15 mins of our EU payments for a years worth of checking.
I thought our EU payments were to fund the NHS?

I'm sure ferry ports can emulate container ports in vehicle checking if it's more efficient.

There's plenty of space at the ports, it doesn't take a lot of thought to reexamine the layouts to permit more stations.
Maybe the could emulate container checking, maybe they already check vehicles that way?

But here's something to ponder, everything coming into the UK from Channel ferry ports or Eire is coming from another EU member state as easily as crossing from Wales or Scotland into England. Post (no deal) Brexit, everything changes. Even doubling the number of vehicle checks (and I suspect very few of those already checked will be non-EU compared to the number of non-EU containers at container ports such as Felixstowe.

The "taking back control" meme frequently used by remainiacs is amusing, so badly triggered you'll use it everywhere. It would be checking more than we currently do for EU deliveries, so it would be taking back control if that is your focus.
Taking back control was apparently why we had to leave the EU. What's the point of letting the majority of vehicles through without checks when we can already do that as an EU member. It's not being triggered, it's reminding Leavers of what they said they wanted, but aren't getting anytime soon.
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Old Jun 16th 2019, 2:58 pm
  #2279  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Not only is no deal in itself a bad deal, no deal still means a deal has to be made in the future—just under worse terms and greater chaos. Backing up Rees-Mogg is likely future prime minister Boris Johnson, whose own attitude toward Brexit seems largely determined by whatever route offers him a path to power—regardless of the consequences for the country.
Britain’s Tories Bravely Put Party Before Country
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Old Jun 16th 2019, 3:25 pm
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post

I'm going to copy and paste some more of that incisive column just to encourage people to read it.

"But Labour’s fence-sitting on Brexit is ultimately a sideshow. The Conservative Party has been in power for nearly a decade, and the buck—or the ever-shaky pound—ultimately stops with them for the ongoing Brexit fiasco.

And the race within the Conservative Party to succeed May could yet radicalize public discourse further when it comes to Brexit. The Tory leadership contenders—of which there are currently seven—are engaged in a rhetorical arms race in the hope of persuading grassroots members of the Conservative Party (who are considerably older and more right-wing than the country at large) to vote for them. The rise of the newly constituted Brexit Party is playing a role similar to that of UKIP previously, encouraging Tory politicians to play to the hard right.

So far, the Tory leadership contenders have threatened to shut down Parliament, offered tax cuts for the well-off, and proposed to give parents a veto over LGBT lessons in schools.

Rory Stewart, the secretary of state for international development, is the only candidate who could arguably be said to represent more mainstream conservative ideas. Stewart is offering the Conservative Party a platform that is—in his own words—“practical and possible.” Yet Stewart stands little chance among a Tory “selectorate” that wishes to drive through Brexit at almost any cost (as well as bring back hanging and fox hunting).

Britain’s two major political parties have been captured by activists and ideologues whose obsessions now dominate the Westminster news cycle. Tory thinking is being driven by Brexit hard-liners, whereas Labour is now firmly in the control of a political faction that believes the EU is a neoliberal plot. Perhaps it’s no wonder that the two parties have, in some polls, fallen to third and fourth place—behind the even more lunatic Brexit Party and the perennially ineffective Liberal Democrats.

Blame for this sorry state of affairs can be laid at the door of the two previous party leaders. Cameron looked at the festering sore of Euroskepticism within the Conservative Party and decided to pick at it. Meanwhile, in a bid to look tough against the trade unions, former Labour leader Ed Miliband opened the Labour Party up to every crank, extremist, and oddball with 3 pounds to spare.

This short-sightedness—each man hoped to quell internal dissent—has transformed their respective parties. But it has proven catastrophic for Britain, whose political destiny is now held hostage by the demands of opposing sets of political extremists."
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