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Tories in chaos

Tories in chaos

Old Jan 26th 2022, 2:34 pm
  #15511  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
If the Tories had invented and USED it to the extent the Labour government did, it would have been crucified as the worst tool in history.

Because Labour USED the PFI initiatives to the max, to slap up hospitals and BSF schools across the country, on 30-yr contracts with a heap of private companies, SPVs and money-makers - it's all absolutely A-OK....and you're just an idiot for 'defending the Tories'.

It's genuinely laughable.
If the cap fits......

Nobody is saying that PFI was A-OK, what they are saying is that it was an existing policy and that it continued after Labour left office. Therefore using it as a stick to beat Gordon Brown with is about as valid as blaming Cameron for causing the financial crash.

Labour actually built schools and hospitals (and I don't recall anyone suggesting there was any corruption involved) as opposed to promising things that they have no intention to provide. The funding for such projects is always an issue - where do you think the funding for HS2 is coming from?
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Old Jan 26th 2022, 2:59 pm
  #15512  
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
If the cap fits......

Nobody is saying that PFI was A-OK, what they are saying is that it was an existing policy and that it continued after Labour left office. Therefore using it as a stick to beat Gordon Brown with is about as valid as blaming Cameron for causing the financial crash.

Labour actually built schools and hospitals (and I don't recall anyone suggesting there was any corruption involved) as opposed to promising things that they have no intention to provide. The funding for such projects is always an issue - where do you think the funding for HS2 is coming from?
From a 2007 paper. Whatever else he did, these gains were at least real.

"Look back down memory lane at some of the headlines before Mr Blair came to power: “400 critically ill children turned away from intensive care units in the past three months due to a chronic shortage of beds and nurses” (Mirror, 21 January 1997). “1 in 7 operations cancelled due to cutbacks” (Mirror, 18 November 1996). “Chaos mounts as wards turn away the sick” (News of the World, 28 January 1996), ”Doctors reveal winter chaos in NHS” (Independent, 10 January 1997). Pictures of patients on trolleys abound among the old cuttings.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1871752/



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Old Jan 26th 2022, 11:15 pm
  #15513  
 
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Old Jan 27th 2022, 6:35 am
  #15514  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
If the cap fits......

Nobody is saying that PFI was A-OK, what they are saying is that it was an existing policy and that it continued after Labour left office. Therefore using it as a stick to beat Gordon Brown with is about as valid as blaming Cameron for causing the financial crash.

Labour actually built schools and hospitals (and I don't recall anyone suggesting there was any corruption involved) as opposed to promising things that they have no intention to provide. The funding for such projects is always an issue - where do you think the funding for HS2 is coming from?
Point proven I suppose.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 4:04 pm
  #15515  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

The Prime Minister says he "had nothing to do with evacuating animals from the Nowzad charity ahead of people" in Afghanistan. "Total Rhubarb."

Emails seek confirmation from the PM before going ahead with evacuating the charity's animals.
Email received - “The PM has just authorised their staff and animals to be evacuated.”

Allies of Johnson tried to downplay the situation, with the leader of the Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg, dismissing calls for a debate as “fussing about a few animals”.
Not very charitable describing his colleagues as animals.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 4:24 pm
  #15516  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
The Prime Minister says he "had nothing to do with evacuating animals from the Nowzad charity ahead of people" in Afghanistan. "Total Rhubarb."

Emails seek confirmation from the PM before going ahead with evacuating the charity's animals.
Email received - “The PM has just authorised their staff and animals to be evacuated.”


Not very charitable describing his colleagues as animals.
Raab managed to keep out of the rhubarb story.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 5:00 pm
  #15517  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
The Prime Minister says he "had nothing to do with evacuating animals from the Nowzad charity ahead of people" in Afghanistan. "Total Rhubarb."

Emails seek confirmation from the PM before going ahead with evacuating the charity's animals.
Email received - “The PM has just authorised their staff and animals to be evacuated.”


Not very charitable describing his colleagues as animals.

The entire situation regarding the rescue of people from Afghanistan was dreadful and horrifying, however I cannot see that the rescue of the dogs made much difference --they were not sitting on seats in a plane were they.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 5:47 pm
  #15518  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The entire situation regarding the rescue of people from Afghanistan was dreadful and horrifying, however I cannot see that the rescue of the dogs made much difference --they were not sitting on seats in a plane were they.
Neither were these evacuees



Bit early for most ridiculous post of the year.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 5:59 pm
  #15519  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The entire situation regarding the rescue of people from Afghanistan was dreadful and horrifying, however I cannot see that the rescue of the dogs made much difference --they were not sitting on seats in a plane were they.
Ask yourself a question or 2. If it was that simple why would the PM's authority be needed? Why would there be a row about animals before people - the implication that translators and the like were a lower priority?
Why was the PM so keen to lie about it? Why not, instead, come out with something about him being an animal lover and saving them?

In your usual haste to defend the PM and/or his government, come what may, you appear to have thought nothing of this.

In a news article sympathetic to the rescue one can read about the staff and the dogs, because "if it's just the people, who looks after the dogs?"
But they're ordinary Afghani citizens, not translators who may face reprisals from the Taliban. As it happened the people were denied access to the airport and found their way to safety because they were not at the same risk as those who didn't make it out.

The organisers returned to the airport next day, minus the volunteers but then US servicemen had to help load up the plane. I imagine there could have been better use of their time?

Was the plane occupying space that could have been used for others? It certainly appears landing and take of slots would impact other flights.

Then the diplomatic efforts involved trying to get clearance and any appropriate visas for the volunteers who might otherwise have one or two problems arriving in the UK.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 8:16 pm
  #15520  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Neither were these evacuees



Bit early for most ridiculous post of the year.
My point is that it is ridiculous to be concerned about the rescuing of a few dogs when the majority of the population have had their lives changed and more than half are now starving.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 8:37 pm
  #15521  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
My point is that it is ridiculous to be concerned about the rescuing of a few dogs when the majority of the population have had their lives changed and more than half are now starving.
No, that wasn't your point.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 8:43 pm
  #15522  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
The entire situation regarding the rescue of people from Afghanistan was dreadful and horrifying, however I cannot see that the rescue of the dogs made much difference --they were not sitting on seats in a plane were they.
Neither was anyone else apparently...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-faces-of-year

Up to the last minute, he imagined the plane’s 229 seats would be filled with some of the thousands of people desperately looking for safe passage. But then he found himself sitting alone, on his way back to London.
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Old Jan 28th 2022, 8:45 pm
  #15523  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
1)Ask yourself a question or 2. If it was that simple why would the PM's authority be needed? Why would there be a row about animals before people - the implication that translators and the like were a lower priority?
Why was the PM so keen to lie about it? Why not, instead, come out with something about him being an animal lover and saving them?


2) In your usual haste to defend the PM and/or his government, come what may, you appear to have thought nothing of this.

In a news article sympathetic to the rescue one can read about the staff and the dogs, because "if it's just the people, who looks after the dogs?"
But they're ordinary Afghani citizens, not translators who may face reprisals from the Taliban. As it happened the people were denied access to the airport and found their way to safety because they were not at the same risk as those who didn't make it out.

The organisers returned to the airport next day, minus the volunteers but then US servicemen had to help load up the plane. I imagine there could have been better use of their time?

Was the plane occupying space that could have been used for others? It certainly appears landing and take of slots would impact other flights.

Then the diplomatic efforts involved trying to get clearance and any appropriate visas for the volunteers who might otherwise have one or two problems arriving in the UK.
1) Do we as non-involved people know the truth regarding these dogs? Except that I have seen that UK people donated money.
The entire situation was terrible due to the sudden withdrawal of troops.
The starvation that is there now, the changes for women and girls.

2) I do not support the PM (I am a member of a different political party--they are not much use either.)



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Old Jan 28th 2022, 10:51 pm
  #15524  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) Do we as non-involved people know the truth regarding these dogs? Except that I have seen that UK people donated money.
The entire situation was terrible due to the sudden withdrawal of troops.
The starvation that is there now, the changes for women and girls.)
But the dogs got out. The volunteer staff looking after them (in no particular danger) got out.
Some of the people who were in danger and needed to be got out didn't.

I'm not sure why you find that hard to understand.

Or why you don't seem to object to a lying PM?
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Old Jan 29th 2022, 4:54 am
  #15525  
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

Smoke and mirrors...
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60179127
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