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Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Old May 30th 2018, 8:16 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by Octang Frye View Post
So glad I left that nanny state. It disgusts me how the subjects allowed this to happen. Well, they get what they deserve.

Police seek new powers, define youtube content as "terrorism".
Police vow clampdown on YouTube thugs glamorising violence Daily Mail Online

Listening to Five Live the other day, all the reporters scolding some footballer about his tattoo of a scary M16 assault rifle.
Mind your own business. That's the thing; nobody can mind their own business. They're lecturing and virtue signalling and so condescending. Stop it!
According to these idiots, the footballer's father was "murdered by a gun". Not a person. One of those guns I keep tripping over "on the streets", as the Dems like to say.
These inanimate objects just leap action.

And, if you look at it, it's the UK that has a fetish over guns. They're obsessed with them. Look at these scary murder death guns on the table in front of the earnest, serious plod.
Look at the coverage of the Royal Wedding. Or Manchester. Photo after photo after photo after photo of police officers cradling MP5s, ARs, HK 416 etc to their chests. Serious bidness.
What a joke. Piers Morgan. Go away.
Better your so called fetish than tens thousands killed, school shootings on a weekly basis.
Better a nanny state than a state for numbskulls.

I am not convinced by his claim about a tribute to his father, originally it was the leg he " shoots with ".
I would be satisfied if he had a red cross tattooed over the rifle, suggesting he supports the end of gun use..
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Old Jun 1st 2018, 2:04 pm
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
The majority of trials in the UK are not held in front of juries but are held in the magistrates courts.
In this case all that had to do was to enforce the judgment of an earlier court..
Justice was done as it would for anyone guilty of inciting racial hatred in the UK..
Well yes and no.

Yes, just about all cases start in a magistrate's court. In theory, everyone has (had?) the right to insist on a jury trial, and those suspected of serious crimes are booted up to crown court by the magistrate's court. Magistrates' courts are open to the public, as are (were) crown court cases except for cases held in camera, originally intended to protect children in family procedings and now, I believe, those suspected of terrorism. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a6877796.html

While I'm all in favour of protecting children, the rest is an unsavoury development.

In the case of Robinson, they were not just enforcing the judgement of an earlier court (which is what I had at first thought). That was a three-month suspended sentence. He was tried and convicted of a new case of contempt of court for his activities that week and a new, longer sentence of 13 months was imposed. Immediately removing him from in front of the court house? Possibly, given that it was a violation of the terms of his previous judgement. An immediate trial and imprisonment with a media ban imposed? Not so much - imagine that the person treated this way was not the vilest piece of shit in the country but someone whose views you agree with. Would you feel the same then? You should. We all should. I'm in no way unhappy that Robinson is in jail, as such, but I am not a fan of justice not being seen to be done. "No platform for racists" should never mean using the same tactics that they would if they were ever in power.
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Old Jun 1st 2018, 2:47 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Well yes and no.

Yes, just about all cases start in a magistrate's court. In theory, everyone has (had?) the right to insist on a jury trial, and those suspected of serious crimes are booted up to crown court by the magistrate's court. Magistrates' courts are open to the public, as are (were) crown court cases except for cases held in camera, originally intended to protect children in family procedings and now, I believe, those suspected of terrorism. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a6877796.html

While I'm all in favour of protecting children, the rest is an unsavoury development.

In the case of Robinson, they were not just enforcing the judgement of an earlier court (which is what I had at first thought). That was a three-month suspended sentence. He was tried and convicted of a new case of contempt of court for his activities that week and a new, longer sentence of 13 months was imposed. Immediately removing him from in front of the court house? Possibly, given that it was a violation of the terms of his previous judgement. An immediate trial and imprisonment with a media ban imposed? Not so much - imagine that the person treated this way was not the vilest piece of shit in the country but someone whose views you agree with. Would you feel the same then? You should. We all should. I'm in no way unhappy that Robinson is in jail, as such, but I am not a fan of justice not being seen to be done. "No platform for racists" should never mean using the same tactics that they would if they were ever in power.
let's agree to disagree,.
.
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Old Jun 1st 2018, 2:57 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

One problem with this case (the gag on the sentencing) is that it is giving credence to what have been seen as fake news sites. When I tried to debunk the original story, no reliable sites were carrying it. The 'fake news' sites were, and by and large they got it correct.
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Old Jun 1st 2018, 3:13 pm
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Well yes and no.

Yes, just about all cases start in a magistrate's court. In theory, everyone has (had?) the right to insist on a jury trial, and those suspected of serious crimes are booted up to crown court by the magistrate's court. Magistrates' courts are open to the public, as are (were) crown court cases except for cases held in camera, originally intended to protect children in family procedings and now, I believe, those suspected of terrorism. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a6877796.html

While I'm all in favour of protecting children, the rest is an unsavoury development.

In the case of Robinson, they were not just enforcing the judgement of an earlier court (which is what I had at first thought).
That's still my understanding - as described in several articles I have read.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8374121.html

'The 35-year-old was already subject to a suspended sentence for committing contempt during a rape trial in Canterbury last year, and had been told that if he fell foul of the law again he would go to prison.'

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
That was a three-month suspended sentence. He was tried and convicted of a new case of contempt of court for his activities that week and a new, longer sentence of 13 months was imposed. Immediately removing him from in front of the court house? Possibly, given that it was a violation of the terms of his previous judgement. An immediate trial and imprisonment with a media ban imposed? Not so much - imagine that the person treated this way was not the vilest piece of shit in the country but someone whose views you agree with. Would you feel the same then? You should. We all should. I'm in no way unhappy that Robinson is in jail, as such, but I am not a fan of justice not being seen to be done. "No platform for racists" should never mean using the same tactics that they would if they were ever in power.
The reports suggest that the media ban was to ensure that the court case he jeopardised did not collapse. It's nothing to do with silencing, or 'no platforming' his abhorrent views, it's about protecting the justice process.
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Old Jun 1st 2018, 4:12 pm
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by rebs View Post
That's still my understanding - as described in several articles I have read.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8374121.html

'The 35-year-old was already subject to a suspended sentence for committing contempt during a rape trial in Canterbury last year, and had been told that if he fell foul of the law again he would go to prison.'

Yes. My point was that the conviction and sentence he received last week were new. ie, he was not sent to prison to complete the suspended sentence from his previous conviction, he was given a new conviction and a new sentence, both of which are likely completely appropriate. My concern is over the speed and lack of public eye, as it would be with anyone.

Originally Posted by rebs View Post
The reports suggest that the media ban was to ensure that the court case he jeopardised did not collapse. It's nothing to do with silencing, or 'no platforming' his abhorrent views, it's about protecting the justice process.
Yes, that's the point I made in a previous post - that the intent was to safeguard the current trial. The concern comes from a "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" in general, when justice cannot be seen to be done. It all seems fine when you agree with the action taken, but less so when you don't. You misunderstand me. I didn't not suggest that anyone was attempting to silence him anywhere. The "no platform" remark was addressed specifically to EMR to whose post I was replying - we cannot have one system for the good guys and another system for the racists, or we fall into their trap.

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Old Jun 1st 2018, 4:17 pm
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
let's agree to disagree,.
.

I'm sure you and I would do just fine together meeting the racists on the street, however...
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Old Jun 1st 2018, 4:19 pm
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
One problem with this case (the gag on the sentencing) is that it is giving credence to what have been seen as fake news sites. When I tried to debunk the original story, no reliable sites were carrying it. The 'fake news' sites were, and by and large they got it correct.
I think part of that stems from the fact that the only people following Robinson around are the fake news sites and the lunatic right. Normal channels would be slow off the mark in this regard.
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Old Jun 1st 2018, 4:35 pm
  #54  
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I think part of that stems from the fact that the only people following Robinson around are the fake news sites and the lunatic right. Normal channels would be slow off the mark in this regard.
Absolutely.

He is a completely unimportant - a nonentity until he does something wrong/outrageous.

Why would the mainstream news be interested in what he's up to?
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Old Jun 1st 2018, 4:53 pm
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Why would the mainstream news be interested in what he's up to?
As soon as the gag was lifted (by respectable journalists going to court) the mainstream media covered it in full.
You know as well as I do that main stresm journalists knew about this at the time, journalists are not the incompetents you seem to wish to depict them, , that they reported the arrest ( but no more) is evidence of this.

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Old Jun 10th 2018, 11:40 am
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

This thread needs some unbrainwashed balance. Have a look at this thorough examination of Tommy's unfair imprisonment:


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Old Jun 10th 2018, 2:18 pm
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

As that geezer freely admits (who is he anyway?) he is biased and it's just his view from a biased position.

Anyway much of the video was taken up with why the breach of the peace charge was dropped and the answer to that is obvious - he practically answered it himself - why bother with a complex, time consuming and expensive court case when you can bang him up in a few hours? He sees a conspiracy - there is none.

The charge was contempt of court and he was guilty. Why do you say that the imprisonment was unfair?
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Old Jun 11th 2018, 11:18 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
I think part of that stems from the fact that the only people following Robinson around are the fake news sites and the lunatic right. Normal channels would be slow off the mark in this regard.
He, Katie Hopkins, Milo Yiannopoulos and, to some extent, Donald Trump are a sad biproduct of social media. Pre-Twitter nobody would have paid any real attention to them but the internet gave them a platform from which to directly communicate their rediculous rants to the world unhindered and entirely unedited.

When media outlets stop giving them the mainstream attention that they crave so badly, they then directly broadcast claims to their followers that they're being censored.

​​​​
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Old Jun 12th 2018, 11:59 am
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
He, Katie Hopkins, Milo Yiannopoulos and, to some extent, Donald Trump are a sad biproduct of social media. Pre-Twitter nobody would have paid any real attention to them but the internet gave them a platform from which to directly communicate their rediculous rants to the world unhindered and entirely unedited.

When media outlets stop giving them the mainstream attention that they crave so badly, they then directly broadcast claims to their followers that they're being censored.

​​​​
Comes with the territory I suppose. With social media access, nobody much is deciding any more what we should and should not watch or hear. It used to be in the UK that the BBC (and newspaper editorial boards) decided all that for us, right down to what music was fit for us to listen to (I have a friend who was a Radio Caroline DJ). I am anti-authoritarian enough to not regret that those days are gone.

The best way to prevent such garbage from getting any traction is to have an educated, informed, and aware poulation that is interested in facts and is politicallly active and aware, or is at any rate willing and able to shout louder than the troglodytes when they show up. I would rather have a Cable Street than a government action. Government should help provide common goods, such as schooling, healthcare and housing, not control access to information. With more open access to information and expresion, there naturally comes unfettered access to garbage.
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Old Jun 15th 2018, 5:42 am
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Default Re: Tommy Robinson in the slammer

Ah Tommy Robinson. He's a bi-product of a broken system. He was instrumental in the bringing to justice these predominantly Pakistani Muslim paedophile gangs. (When it finally broke, the press said Asian men, which is laughable) There's a well documented case where an 11 year old girl was being passed round like a rag doll, and when someone reported screams to police, they arrested her for drunk and disorderly. Why? Because the police did not want to inflame racial tension or appear to be racist. That's no less than ****ing scandelous.

I remember Saira Kahn on a chat show some years ago tearing into him as a rasist asshole because he said that the Pakistani culture was rife with examples of child rape, she really painted him as a monster. 6 or so years later she was in tears on loose women saying her Uncle raped her as a child and it was accepted in Pakistani culture, which kind of makes her a bit of a lying [email protected]@t to be fair.

I've been following him fairly closely for a number of years, more out of curiosity than support, and I've never actualy seen him do anything that I would call remotely racist. He has an issue with a religion based on the teachings of a paedophile murderer, which to be honest most right thinking people would have. They keep trying to trip him up in interviews but he's not the ignorant pig many take him for, he knows his Koran from his old testament much to one interviewer's embarrassment.

His relationship with the police is available for all to see, they've to all intents and purposes bullied him and his family for years, all because he had the courage to stand by his beliefs. He's the martyr the alt right are looking for, if he was to meet his end in prison at the hands of a Muslim, good luck living in Luton or similar areas is all I can say.

I think it's a real shame that Chris Hitchens is no longer with us, because like or loathe his views, you couldn't just dismiss him as a thick working class idiot the way many do with Tommy. I think he's done his bit, when gay men defend a belief system that thinks being gay should be illegal and punishable by death, I'd give up.

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