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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

macliam Aug 2nd 2020 4:20 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
The more this thread goes on, the more it reminds me of an old drunk down the pub.....

" They should shoot 'em.."
" Who?"
" Them!"
" Who, exactly?"
" I dunno....... THEM foreign wossits...."
" Why?"
" 'cos they should!"
" What have they done?"
" All them things on'a news... killin' people without trial an' that!"

Assanah Aug 2nd 2020 6:03 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12891123)
Unless the appeal by the government goes through, yes, she will get a try to have citizenship returned to her. However, she should just have been tried for any crimes in the first place because law should apply to all, equally, rather than vary with the wishes of administrators of the executive. That's what rule of law is. The principle of equal application of law to all does not vary according to what a person may have done, only the outcome or sentences of that legal process should vary accordingly. If it happens outside the process then none of us are protected.

It’s possible to legally strip people of their citizenship. An administrator decided based on what he interpreted to be a correct application of that law. Begum doesn’t agree and she is fighting that decision in court. To fight a decision you don’t have to be present. I still don’t see due process being denied to her.

DaveLovesDee Aug 2nd 2020 7:19 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12891235)
It’s possible to legally strip people of their citizenship. An administrator decided based on what he interpreted to be a correct application of that law. Begum doesn’t agree and she is fighting that decision in court. To fight a decision you don’t have to be present. I still don’t see due process being denied to her.

She was stripped of citizenship based on claims of what she'd done in Syria. Surely she should be tried for those crimes in a court of law, and if found guilty, then strip her of her citizenship.

Lion in Winter Aug 2nd 2020 8:01 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12891235)
It’s possible to legally strip people of their citizenship. An administrator decided based on what he interpreted to be a correct application of that law. Begum doesn’t agree and she is fighting that decision in court. To fight a decision you don’t have to be present. I still don’t see due process being denied to her.


Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12891257)
She was stripped of citizenship based on claims of what she'd done in Syria. Surely she should be tried for those crimes in a court of law, and if found guilty, then strip her of her citizenship.

And it's not, under international law, legal to leave people stateless. So if this British-born woman has no other citizenship, if the UK is going to operate inside the law they should prosecute her under British law.

I suspect that part of the problem is that a struggling British government wanted to score some PR points with the public by booting her out. So they did.

Boiler Aug 2nd 2020 8:51 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12891257)
She was stripped of citizenship based on claims of what she'd done in Syria. Surely she should be tried for those crimes in a court of law, and if found guilty, then strip her of her citizenship.

First of all she has to be tried in Syria.

DaveLovesDee Aug 2nd 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12891296)
First of all she has to be tried in Syria.

Sure, using what courts?

Wouldn't The Hague be more suited to your viewpoint?

Boiler Aug 2nd 2020 9:31 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12891306)
Sure, using what courts?

Wouldn't The Hague be more suited to your viewpoint?

Syrian courts would seem more obvious.

DaveLovesDee Aug 2nd 2020 9:39 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12891313)
Syrian courts would seem more obvious.

The Syrian courts didn't take away her citizenship for crimes she may or may not have committed.

Boiler Aug 2nd 2020 10:06 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12891314)
The Syrian courts didn't take away her citizenship for crimes she may or may not have committed.

Up to the Syrian courts to try her for the crimes, citizenship is irrelevant.

macliam Aug 2nd 2020 11:03 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12891327)
Up to the Syrian courts to try her for the crimes, citizenship is irrelevant.

First she has to be charged with something....... so far, nothing but leaving the UK on her sister's passport.

Boiler Aug 3rd 2020 3:34 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12891346)
First she has to be charged with something....... so far, nothing but leaving the UK on her sister's passport.

Perhaps we could start a petition?

DaveLovesDee Aug 3rd 2020 4:42 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12891346)
First she has to be charged with something....... so far, nothing but leaving the UK on her sister's passport.

And that'd be a charge under UK law, not Syrian.

Boiler Aug 3rd 2020 5:15 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
The obviously jurisdiction for crimes committed in Syria is Syria.

Assanah Aug 3rd 2020 5:47 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12891415)
The obviously jurisdiction for crimes committed in Syria is Syria.

Yes especially because Begum‘s victims are still in Syria. I think the people that suffered war, genocide, slavery and systematic rape because of her and her fellow ISIS member should feel the wrath of their victims. Also how can justice be served if all the perpetrators leave and all witnesses are still in Syria?

SMRL Aug 3rd 2020 6:04 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12891418)
Yes especially because Begum‘s victims are still in Syria. I think the people that suffered war, genocide, slavery and systematic rape because of her and her fellow ISIS member should feel the wrath of their victims. Also how can justice be served if all the perpetrators leave and all witnesses are still in Syria?

As a child that was groomed online and lured overseas to be married and provide offspring, she is likely one of those victims of slavery and systematic rape you speak of. When a child is groomed for sex in the UK we vilify the perpetrator, when a child is groomed for sex in Syria we vilify the victim. For some reason we think victims in the UK are vulnerable, easily led and dont understand the consequences of their actions, yet we think victims lured to Syria are somehow more mature, know what they're doing, deserve what they get etc etc.


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