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Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Old Aug 1st 2020, 3:42 pm
  #1216  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
And many/most agree with you. Put it to the vote?
Luckily, law is not decided by public vote.
Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I think there are more important things about which we could exercise democracy in the UK right now rather than the fate of some idiot.
In common with many, I'd suggest that you educate yourself about the meaning and limits of democracy in a British setting.

Law and justice have supposedly evolved beyond vengeance and the right of the powerful.... except when those elected to maintain it decide to ignore both.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 3:46 pm
  #1217  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Luckily, law is not decided by public vote.

In common with many, I'd suggest that you educate yourself about the meaning and limits of democracy in a British setting.

Law and justice have supposedly evolved beyond vengeance and the right of the powerful.... except when those elected to maintain it decide to ignore both.
Look, if she can travel here on her own cheque and fund her own housing, board and 24 hour security detail then fine, let her return and fight her own legal battle. But she doesn't have the ability to do any of that so it's all a moot point really.

This shouldn't be like Assange all over again where the British tax payer ends up paying for everything and it all turns out to be pointless anyway. There are far better ways to spend UK public funds atm.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 3:59 pm
  #1218  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Look, if she can travel here on her own cheque and fund her own housing, board and 24 hour security detail then fine, let her return and fight her own legal battle. But she doesn't have the ability to do any of that so it's all a moot point really.

This shouldn't be like Assange all over again where the British tax payer ends up paying for everything and it all turns out to be pointless anyway. There are far better ways to spend UK public funds atm.
Assange is Australian... and the actions of the British Government have been less than above board in his regard. If Begum lands in the UK, she will at least have the same rights as any other illegal migrant... so the last parts of your cynical gameplan are irrelevant. However, since she will not be released from the camp until the UK accepts responsibility for her, the actions of the UK government to avoid that situation are transparent.

I can't help but smile that you whinge about the UK government when its actions impact your life, yet seem happy to support it when it really does destroy someone else's.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 4:03 pm
  #1219  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Assange is Australian... and the actions of the British Government have been less than above board in his regard. If Begum lands in the UK, she will at least have the same rights as any other illegal migrant... so the last parts of your cynical gameplan are irrelevant. However, since she will not be released from the camp until the UK accepts responsibility for her, the actions of the UK government to avoid that situation are transparent.

I can't help but smile that you whinge about the UK government when its actions impact your life, yet seem happy to support it when it really does destroy someone else's.
Did I go to a war zone to fight alongside the enemy? Have I been linked to torture and human rights abuses? When the answer to those questions is yes then you can compare me with her.

I was a supporter of Assange whereas I honestly couldn't care less what happens to this girl. At the end of the day she was old enough to make her own choices and she made them. Now she should face the consequences of her actions.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 4:12 pm
  #1220  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Did I go to a war zone to fight alongside the enemy? Have I been linked to torture and human rights abuses? When the answer to those questions is yes then you can compare me with her.

I was a supporter of Assange whereas I honestly couldn't care less what happens to this girl. At the end of the day she was old enough to make her own choices and she made them. Now she should face the consequences of her actions.
I agree...leave her wherever she is to do whatever she wants...except go back to the UK. I don’t see why taxpayers money should be spent on traitors. If she did win the right to remain in the UK...she would have to get a new ID etc etc etc...more taxpayers money.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 4:15 pm
  #1221  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
I agree...leave her wherever she is to do whatever she wants...except go back to the UK. I don’t see why taxpayers money should be spent on traitors. If she did win the right to remain in the UK...she would have to get a new ID etc etc etc...more taxpayers money.
And I think that's ultimately what this all boils down to. She wants back into the UK because the UK will offer her a publicly funded fresh start, just as it did for James Bulger's killers and many others, some who deserved it and others who didn't. In Bangladesh she would be likely be left to fend for herself and life in a country like that can be tough even when you're not a foreign-raised teenage runaway with a questionable past.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 4:39 pm
  #1222  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Did I go to a war zone to fight alongside the enemy? Have I been linked to torture and human rights abuses? When the answer to those questions is yes then you can compare me with her.

I was a supporter of Assange whereas I honestly couldn't care less what happens to this girl. At the end of the day she was old enough to make her own choices and she made them. Now she should face the consequences of her actions.
I absolutely accept that she should pay the penalty for her actions..... after she has been charged and tried like any other person accused under British law. However, she has not actually been charged wih anything and the only thing she is known to have done is to use her sister's passport to travel to a war zone, marry a foreign daesh fighter and have 3 children by him - all of whom are now dead. All other actions have been inferred - and I have seen nothing to suggest she did any more than her husband has said. Therefore her personal links to torture and human rights abuses are about as clear as yours for supporting extrajudicial punishment.
Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
I agree...leave her wherever she is to do whatever she wants...except go back to the UK. I don’t see why taxpayers money should be spent on traitors. If she did win the right to remain in the UK...she would have to get a new ID etc etc etc...more taxpayers money.
That is a disingenuous comment, given that she has no ability to leave the camp in which she is held - what you are actually saying is that she should die for her actions, having been denied any opportunity to defend herself. At least be honest and say you wish her dead.
Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
And I think that's ultimately what this all boils down to. She wants back into the UK because the UK will offer her a publicly funded fresh start, just as it did for James Bulger's killers and many others, some who deserved it and others who didn't. In Bangladesh she would be likely be left to fend for herself and life in a country like that can be tough even when you're not a foreign-raised teenage runaway with a questionable past.
As I said above - at least be honest enough to admit you wish her dead, as opposed to wittering about potential costs,etc. Dead or out of sight, just like the Government would like. If you don't see the danger in supporting such actions, I'd suggest anything else you have to say about law or rights is meaningless.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 4:49 pm
  #1223  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I absolutely accept that she should pay the penalty for her actions..... after she has been charged and tried like any other person accused under British law. However, she has not actually been charged wih anything and the only thing she is known to have done is to use her sister's passport to travel to a war zone, marry a foreign daesh fighter and have 3 children by him - all of whom are now dead. All other actions have been inferred - and I have seen nothing to suggest she did any more than her husband has said. Therefore her personal links to torture and human rights abuses are about as clear as yours for supporting extrajudicial punishment.

That is a disingenuous comment, given that she has no ability to leave the camp in which she is held - what you are actually saying is that she should die for her actions, having been denied any opportunity to defend herself. At least be honest and say you wish her dead.

As I said above - at least be honest enough to admit you wish her dead, as opposed to wittering about potential costs,etc. Dead or out of sight, just like the Government would like. If you don't see the danger in supporting such actions, I'd suggest anything else you have to say about law or rights is meaningless.
I don't wish her dead and I doubt most of the UK population do either. From what I can gather, feelings towards her are mostly those of indifference. She's a bit of a pathetic creature and the only insistence I've seen is that she should never be allowed back into the UK again.

As JG suggested just leave her where she is or if she wants to apply for refuge in another country and they're happy enough to accept her then let her go there instead. What she has absolutely no right to is a new life at the expense of the UK tax payer.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 4:50 pm
  #1224  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
law is not decided by public vote.
... previously known as "mob rule".
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 4:51 pm
  #1225  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Watchpost View Post
... previously known as "mob rule".
Well no because that would be more like 'let's put her in stocks and chuck manky fruit at her' wouldn't it.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Well no because that would be more like 'let's put her in stocks and chuck manky fruit at her' wouldn't it.
No one should be stripped of their citizenship without due process. Simple as that. Citizenship is "the right to have rights".

If she is accused of treason or some other offence she should be tried and sentenced.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 6:42 pm
  #1227  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
I don't wish her dead and I doubt most of the UK population do either. From what I can gather, feelings towards her are mostly those of indifference. She's a bit of a pathetic creature and the only insistence I've seen is that she should never be allowed back into the UK again.

As JG suggested just leave her where she is or if she wants to apply for refuge in another country and they're happy enough to accept her then let her go there instead. What she has absolutely no right to is a new life at the expense of the UK tax payer.
Sorry, there is no alternative.... either you accept her right to a trial in the country of her birth, or you wish her to share the same fate as her 3 children. Leaving someone to die is little diferent to killing them, the rest is just hypocrisy.

You are condemning her to remain in a camp, run by rebels in an enclave of a country in a state of civil war.... there is no likely positive outcome. Whereas she definitely had a right to British nationality by birth, there is dispute about her right to Bangladeshi citizenship or its willingness to pick up the tab for someone born, raised and educated in the UK. No third-party country is likely to want to pick up the tab for the UK abandoning its own citizen either.

The UK spends far, far more on dubious enterprises than would be necessary to resolve this issue. How much do you think each missile launched against daesh cost? The government tried a clever trick but it has backfired..... now it just looks vengeful and pathetic.

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Old Aug 1st 2020, 7:00 pm
  #1228  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
That is a disingenuous comment, given that she has no ability to leave the camp in which she is held - what you are actually saying is that she should die for her actions, having been denied any opportunity to defend herself. At least be honest and say you wish her dead.
Please do not put words in my mouth. If I wanted her dead I would have said so. I really do not care what happens to her...she’s made her bed....
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 7:04 pm
  #1229  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Please do not put words in my mouth. If I wanted her dead I would have said so. I really do not care what happens to her...she’s made her bed....
As I said, disingenuous.... and hypocritical as her fate is almost certain.
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Old Aug 1st 2020, 7:08 pm
  #1230  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
As I said, disingenuous.... and hypocritical as her fate is almost certain.
if you say so...
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