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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

DigitalGhost Jul 20th 2020 10:26 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Red Eric (Post 12884798)
He probably thinks the courts are irrelevant if the government decrees something.

Poor chap :(

Not at all but I thought the decision had already been made and that's why she has to appeal it.

kimilseung Jul 20th 2020 10:36 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12884801)
Not at all but I thought the decision had already been made and that's why she has to appeal it.

Finality in such issues, is all a bit of a fuzzy moving line.

macliam Jul 21st 2020 12:20 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12884801)
Not at all but I thought the decision had already been made and that's why she has to appeal it.

The decision was made by Sajid Javid and the Home Office. The UK court upheld this on the basis that Begum has Bangladeshi citizenship, but she was not allowed to present her case in the UK. The appeal court has now said that trying the case in her absence did not allow her the normal opportunity to contest it and was contrary to justice. Meanwhile, Bangladesh has refused to accept her right to citizenship and she has been left, de facto, in a camp run by Syrian rebels due to the decision of the British Home Office to offload its "problem" onto someone else. This Appeal decision is likely to be challenged by the Home office, because once she has returned to the UK, it will be difficult for them to deport her back to a place of danger, be that into the hands of a non-governmental organization or to a country that does not accept her right to reside and still maintains the death penalty.

DigitalGhost Jul 21st 2020 8:08 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12884866)
it will be difficult for them to deport her back to a place of danger, be that into the hands of a non-governmental organization or to a country that does not accept her right to reside and still maintains the death penalty.

Difficult yes but not impossible.

If they can do it with Abu Hamza then they can do it with this arsehole and all others like her.

macliam Jul 21st 2020 11:28 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12884949)
Difficult yes but not impossible.

If they can do it with Abu Hamza then they can do it with this arsehole and all others like her.

Abu Hamza was tried and found guilty of several offences and sentenced to 7 years imprisonment...... he was also not born in the UK and had never held UK citizenship.

DigitalGhost Jul 21st 2020 11:53 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12885002)
never held UK citizenship.

Yes he did.

https://www.statelessness.eu/blog/ci...rom%20the%20UK.

If he he'd never been naturalised then Theresa May would just have been able to deport him outright. Remember nobody in the UK gets permanent residence like they do in Canada, the US and Australia. UK ILR comes with almost no rights other than allowing a foreign national to remain without any visa renewal requirements.

macliam Jul 21st 2020 11:58 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12885013)
Yes he did.

https://www.statelessness.eu/blog/ci...rom%20the%20UK.

If he he'd never been naturalised then Theresa May would just have been able to deport him outright. Remember nobody in the UK gets permanent residence like they do in Canada, the US and Australia. UK ILR comes with almost no rights other than allowing a foreign national to remain without any visa renewal requirements.

Apologies, you are correct.... however, he was granted British citizenship through marriage, he did not have by virtue of birth.

DigitalGhost Jul 21st 2020 12:03 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12885016)
Apologies, you are correct.... however, he was granted British citizenship through marriage, he did not have by virtue of birth.

I mean generally citizenship is citizenship right and that's the point. It's the crossroads at which you cease to become a foreigner in that country and are taken into the country as one of their own.

You don't really get it through marriage either. You can qualify for an immigrant visa through marriage but then need to qualify for naturalisation in your own right. As soon as the UK managed it with Abu Hamza, the US started to seek ways of doing similar things with naturalised citizens who they now considered undesirable. It actually paved the way for a sort of citizenship levelling system in a few countries.

DigitalGhost Jul 21st 2020 12:06 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
You could argue that Abu Hamza was a far less harmful individual than Begum is though. He was a hate preacher and a massive prick, nobody is disputing that, but she is accused of doing some truly terrible things during her time in Syria.

DaveLovesDee Jul 21st 2020 12:15 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12885022)
You could argue that Abu Hamza was a far less harmful individual than Begum is though. He was a hate preacher and a massive prick, nobody is disputing that, but she is accused of doing some truly terrible things during her time in Syria.

Accused... She's never been tried in a court of law, only trial by media and the government.

Hamza was convicted.

Begum should have the rìght to a fair trial, and if that means her being arrested on arrival to the UK, so be it.

macliam Jul 21st 2020 12:31 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12885022)
You could argue that Abu Hamza was a far less harmful individual than Begum is though. He was a hate preacher and a massive prick, nobody is disputing that, but she is accused of doing some truly terrible things during her time in Syria.

Abu Hamza should have been deported in 1980, for overstaying his visa, but was saved due to his marriage. His application for citizenship was rubber-stamped in 1984 despite this issue.

Do you discount his actions in setting up terrorist training camps, for which he has been tried and senternced to life imprisonment?
Begum has been charged with no offences relating to her time in Syria - if she had, she too should be tried for them.
Summary justice is no justice in a law-abiding country.

BritInParis Jul 21st 2020 1:30 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
There is no point in trying to draw comparisons between the cases of Abu Hamza and Begum. Abu Hamza was an Egyptian citizen fighting extradition to a third country, namely the US, to face terrorism charges. Jack Letts is a better example. Canada was not happy about it but they never attempted to deny Letts was their citizen.

DigitalGhost Jul 21st 2020 4:22 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12885073)
There is no point in trying to draw comparisons between the cases of Abu Hamza and Begum. Abu Hamza was an Egyptian citizen fighting extradition to a third country, namely the US, to face terrorism charges. Jack Letts is a better example. Canada was not happy about it but they never attempted to deny Letts was their citizen.

Well to be fair, Canada couldn't get Letts back even if they wanted him. He's currently being incarcerated for terror offences in the middle east. The UK just washed their hands of him and, if Canada is to be believed, dropped Canada in it.

His mother has been threatening to move back to Canada from the UK though, albeit by sea since she's on an international no-fly list. :hysterical:

paulry Jul 21st 2020 10:22 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
We already know how this is going to go. Her British citizenship will be restored. She *might* spend a year or two in prison for a yet to be decided crime, and then she'll be released into the community with costly enhanced police protections and awarded a new identity and resettled by the state as someones new neighbour but with a well hidden and very creepy past.

BritInParis Jul 22nd 2020 12:25 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12885205)
Well to be fair, Canada couldn't get Letts back even if they wanted him. He's currently being incarcerated for terror offences in the middle east. The UK just washed their hands of him and, if Canada is to be believed, dropped Canada in it.

Probably because that’s exactly what the UK did. Canada is now solely responsible for providing consular assistance. No awkward tabloid headlines about how much time, money and resources are being used taking care of ‘Jihadi Jack’.


His mother has been threatening to move back to Canada from the UK though, albeit by sea since she's on an international no-fly list. :hysterical:
That does tend to happen when you’re found guilty of funding terrorism.


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