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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

Scamp Jul 19th 2020 7:14 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 12883873)
I think the issue would be, once she is in, you wouldnt be able to get rid of her.

Yeah, I did think that as I was typing. If it's 'thanks but no thanks' what do we do with her....but then again, I also think we pretend to be the greatest of everything so why shouldn't we act with a moral compass above just discarding humans.

If she's denied citizenship or it's revoked or whatever the correct description of the situation, do we stick her on a plane back to Syria? To Bangladesh so she can argue there? It's a good question. Should that lack of clarity mean we don't give her a 'fair' hearing by being in person?

dave_j Jul 19th 2020 7:30 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Let me be Mr Cynic for a bit.

The government has done all it needs to do. It has defended the concept of 'treasonable activity' and the courts have twisted it's arm and the target will likely have her day in court.
And guess who'll be paying and guess who'll be getting paid?
Who wins? Who loses?
Government rates a score draw, it did it's best and what was expected but it can't beat the masonry.
Lawyers don't care because they win whoever wins. They clean up 9-0.
Ms Begum loses, probably. She'll remain in the UK, but to what end. The media and MI6 knows who she is, what she represents and so will anyone who might want to be her friend. She rates a 0-0.
UK taxpayers? Well they lose 0-9 as they always do. They'll pay for appeal after appeal to no end other than funding those really expensive expenses.

It's unpopular, but the woman should be allowed to stay. She will anyway, so save the money and for once, save the taxpayers some cash that would otherwise disappear into some lawyer's Cayman Island fund.


Fredbargate Jul 19th 2020 7:36 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by el collado kid (Post 12883015)
Yeah thank **** for that P.S who is it:eek:

Someone we all miss due to his extensive knowledge on all subjects :rofl:

Scamp Jul 19th 2020 7:43 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12883881)
Let me be Mr Cynic for a bit.

The government has done all it needs to do. It has defended the concept of 'treasonable activity' and the courts have twisted it's arm and the target will likely have her day in court.
And guess who'll be paying and guess who'll be getting paid?
Who wins? Who loses?
Government rates a score draw, it did it's best and what was expected but it can't beat the masonry.
Lawyers don't care because they win whoever wins. They clean up 9-0.
Ms Begum loses, probably. She'll remain in the UK, but to what end. The media and MI6 knows who she is, what she represents and so will anyone who might want to be her friend. She rates a 0-0.
UK taxpayers? Well they lose 0-9 as they always do. They'll pay for appeal after appeal to no end other than funding those really expensive expenses.

It's unpopular, but the woman should be allowed to stay. She will anyway, so save the money and for once, save the taxpayers some cash that would otherwise disappear into some lawyer's Cayman Island fund.

Personally, I think that's a spot on summary.

Although I disagree with allowing to stay on a purely emotive basis when you look at a real lack of remorse and the waste of time, money and other resources that will go into it all.
Flip side is, I think it's worth letting her stay, punished for any crimes relevant and best kept under watch rather than letting her run loose in the wild world with no idea what she does or doesn't then get up to.


mikemike Jul 19th 2020 8:07 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
she is british and is our problem, trying to abdicate this responsibility is the hall mark of this and the last government, nothing new there

Assanah Jul 19th 2020 8:11 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12883881)
Let me be Mr Cynic for a bit.

The government has done all it needs to do. It has defended the concept of 'treasonable activity' and the courts have twisted it's arm and the target will likely have her day in court.
And guess who'll be paying and guess who'll be getting paid?
Who wins? Who loses?
Government rates a score draw, it did it's best and what was expected but it can't beat the masonry.
Lawyers don't care because they win whoever wins. They clean up 9-0.
Ms Begum loses, probably. She'll remain in the UK, but to what end. The media and MI6 knows who she is, what she represents and so will anyone who might want to be her friend. She rates a 0-0.
UK taxpayers? Well they lose 0-9 as they always do. They'll pay for appeal after appeal to no end other than funding those really expensive expenses.

It's unpopular, but the woman should be allowed to stay. She will anyway, so save the money and for once, save the taxpayers some cash that would otherwise disappear into some lawyer's Cayman Island fund.

Are you sure that this will save money? This kind of deranged person will only cost. You will have to watch her constantly because she might start spreading her hateful ideology. She is a black hole.

Assanah Jul 19th 2020 8:14 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by mikemike (Post 12883886)
she is british and is our problem, trying to abdicate this responsibility is the hall mark of this and the last government, nothing new there

That's only half. The other half comes from the Muslim world with their Islam über alles idiology. The west should take responsibility but so should the Muslim countries involved. ISIS didn't start in Britain. We should not let this slide. Begum is their creation too.

mikemike Jul 19th 2020 8:44 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Assanah (Post 12883888)
That's only half. The other half comes from the Muslim world with their Islam über alles idiology. The west should take responsibility but so should the Muslim countries involved. ISIS didn't start in Britain. We should not let this slide. Begum is their creation too.

point being she is British no matter how much we deny it. there is no such thing yet as a moslem citizen....yet

paulry Jul 19th 2020 9:16 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Fredbargate (Post 12883882)
Someone we all miss due to his extensive knowledge on all subjects :rofl:

:lol:

DaveLovesDee Jul 19th 2020 10:22 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12883872)
Bit late to this party but wasn't the reason the decision is being reviewed that the previous was made with her remotely and they've decided it's fairer for her to put her case forward in person?

In which case, why the butthurt? Let the girl come back and a decision be made in person. Yes, we'll waste a lot of money doing it as a nation and it'll just make us look daft to a lot of people if it results in the same decision but let's just get on with it.
We have multiple layers of courts to deal with the ambiguity and interpretation of hundreds of years of legal adjustments and we're in really strange waters with such a case, if we strip a person of their citizenship, let's do it properly.

There's a suggestion that she'd be arrested for terrorism offences on arrival. But as I said yesterday, she has the right to face her accusers (the Home Office), and should do.


Originally Posted by kimilseung (Post 12883873)
I think the issue would be, once she is in, you wouldnt be able to get rid of her.

If her citizenship is revoked, she'd be deported to the country of her remaining nationality, either immediately or after whatever sentences she receives in the UK for her crimes.

DigitalGhost Jul 19th 2020 10:24 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12883913)
There's a suggestion that she'd be arrested for terrorism offences on arrival. But as I said yesterday, she has the right to face her accusers (the Home Office), and should do.



If her citizenship is revoked, she'd be deported to the country of her remaining nationality, either immediately or after whatever sentences she receives in the UK for her crimes.

But she should be interned in immigration detention if or until that happens.

DaveLovesDee Jul 19th 2020 10:27 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost (Post 12883915)
But she should be interned in immigration detention if or until that happens.

If she's arrested, that's likely. If she isn't, that would be illegal.

Scamp Jul 19th 2020 10:43 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12883913)
There's a suggestion that she'd be arrested for terrorism offences on arrival. But as I said yesterday, she has the right to face her accusers (the Home Office), and should do.



If her citizenship is revoked, she'd be deported to the country of her remaining nationality, either immediately or after whatever sentences she receives in the UK for her crimes.

Thanks

BritInParis Jul 19th 2020 10:46 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12883853)
Given the continued refusal of the Bangladeshi government to recognize Begim's citizenship, the withdrawal of her Btitish nationality through birth has effectively rendered her stateless. SIAC has no authority to enforce it's view on Bangladesh, so its decision is merely a legal gloss on the UK's action of passing the buck.

If the Bangladeshi government refuses to recognise her claim to citizenship then it is they who have rendered her de facto stateless, not the UK. That is she is a Bangladeshi citizen de jure in the eyes of the UK courts then that is all that is required to allow the Home Secretary’s decision to strip Begum of her British citizenship to remain compliant with Section 40 of the British Nationality Act 1981 and Article 8 of the Convention the Reduction of Statelessness without even relying on the exception that permits making someone stateless if they “conducted him or herself in a manner which is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom.”

None of this is an issue for Bangladesh as they’re not a signatory of the Convention. They also retain the death penalty for terrorism offences which, whilst simultaneously stating she will not be permitted to enter Bangladesh, would be applied to her if she ever did travel there. A rather neat conceit as Bangladesh knows the UK cannot deport anyone to a country where they would potentially face the death penalty as a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights.

There’s a reason her lawyers have not seriously challenged the idea that she is not a Bangladeshi citizen in court. By focussing on a narrow point of natural justice that she should be allowed to appeal the decision in person, they know that as soon as she steps foot on UK soil, then the removal of her British citizenship is rendered moot as she will be remaining in the UK whether she wins or loses that appeal.

DigitalGhost Jul 19th 2020 10:48 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee (Post 12883916)
If she's arrested, that's likely. If she isn't, that would be illegal.

Are people who are in there awaiting removal technically under arrest?


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