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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

spouse of scouse Aug 19th 2019 4:09 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12724773)
Indeed, now both with convictions for funding terrorism. The “we’re terribly nice and middle class so the rules don’t apply to us” defence evidently didn’t wash with the judge.


Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12724819)
The arrogance on display from Letts and his parents is pretty breathtaking.

What Letts' parents did was wrong, but I don't think arrogance or 'the rules don't apply to us' was or is the driver. I don't think it's possible to overestimate what a parent will do for their child (including adult children) when they're in danger. I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not agreeing with Letts' and Lane's actions, I'm just stating what I see as a fact.

BristolUK Aug 19th 2019 4:59 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse (Post 12724851)
What Letts' parents did was wrong, but I don't think arrogance or 'the rules don't apply to us' was or is the driver. I don't think it's possible to overestimate what a parent will do for their child (including adult children) when they're in danger. I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not agreeing with Letts' and Lane's actions, I'm just stating what I see as a fact.

Not to mention that "funding terrorism" is a bit of a stretch to describe wanting to send money to help their son, something they also claim the police said was okay.

Suspended prison sentences are not really the outcome expected if there really were some serious offending going on.

BritInParis Aug 19th 2019 9:31 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse (Post 12724851)
What Letts' parents did was wrong, but I don't think arrogance or 'the rules don't apply to us' was or is the driver. I don't think it's possible to overestimate what a parent will do for their child (including adult children) when they're in danger. I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not agreeing with Letts' and Lane's actions, I'm just stating what I see as a fact.

I'm not sure about you and yours, but I would fully expect to be disowned by mine, not sent care packages and then whine about how unfair it is in the national press because obviously they're the real victims in all this. The mind boggles.


Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12724869)
Not to mention that "funding terrorism" is a bit of a stretch to describe wanting to send money to help their son, something they also claim the police said was okay.

Suspended prison sentences are not really the outcome expected if there really were some serious offending going on.

:blink:

kimilseung Aug 19th 2019 9:48 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
It's a bit silly to run two separate timelines in some hypothetical, but I do wonder what would be the outcome for people like Orwell and others who fought in Spain, if it were today.

spouse of scouse Aug 19th 2019 11:24 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12724950)
I'm not sure about you and yours, but I would fully expect to be disowned by mine, not sent care packages and then whine about how unfair it is in the national press because obviously they're the real victims in all this. The mind boggles.


I'd fully expect to be disowned by my parents too and I'd deserve to be, but Jack Letts wasn't the subject of my post. His parents, and parents in general, was.

BristolUK Aug 19th 2019 11:42 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Not to mention that "funding terrorism" is a bit of a stretch to describe wanting to send money to help their son, something they also claim the police said was okay.
Suspended prison sentences are not really the outcome expected if there really were some serious offending going on.

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12724950)
:blink:

Well...

John Letts and Sally Lane were found guilty of sending their son £223 (C$348) in September 2015.
Globalnews.ca
That's not really going a long way in supporting terrorism is it.

A court heard they sent him £223 and attempted to wire another £1,500......A jury deliberated for nearly 20 hours to find the defendants guilty of one charge of funding terrorism in in September 2015 but not guilty of the same charge in December 2015.A third charge relating to an attempt to send money in January 2016 was ordered to lie on file after jurors could not agree on a verdict. .
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...uilty-16536249
So out of three charges, only one guilty verdict after all the evidence.

But the couple have told a Sunday newspaper they initially asked a police liaison officer if they could send money to their son and the police agreed. Ms Lane said told the Mail on Sunday they were initially given permission because “no court in the land will convict a parent for trying to protect their child”. Two days later, however, permission was withdrawn.

A judge later freed them on remand, describing them as “two perfectly decent people [who] have ended up in custody because of the love of their child".
Daily Telegraph

It has all the hallmarks of one of those cases that ends up in court, that no-one really wants to happen but the law can't be seen to be doing nothing and the judge gives the sentence so that justice is "seen to be done" but then suspends the prison sentence for both defendants so as to spare them jail time because they loved their son.

Seems clear enough and fairly common with other cases where sympathy lies with the defendant so they get a conviction without the corresponding spell inside.

materialcontroller Aug 20th 2019 12:05 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
So, two things.

One, "funding terrorism" isn't a stretch or an exaggeration; it's the actual offence that they carried out and were convicted of.

Secondly, they were ****ing stupid to rely on a police officer for legal advice.

They'd do well to keep their heads down and their gobs shut.

BristolUK Aug 20th 2019 12:19 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12724997)
So, two things.

One, "funding terrorism" isn't a stretch or an exaggeration; it's the actual offence that they carried out and were convicted of..

Perhaps if the son had been convicted of an offence, the charge could have been something like aiding and abetting. Since he hadn't been, that wasn't open to them.

So the next charge would be equal to funding terrorism by buying a bomb or some other arms. Bit short of that, though, dontcha think?
Hence the show trial and minimal punishment to satisfy all.

Boiler Aug 20th 2019 1:25 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Well I do not understand why they would want to get involved with the Media, you would have thought they would keep their head down.

Scamp Aug 20th 2019 5:32 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12724997)
So, two things.

One, "funding terrorism" isn't a stretch or an exaggeration; it's the actual offence that they carried out and were convicted of.

Secondly, they were ****ing stupid to rely on a police officer for legal advice.

They'd do well to keep their heads down and their gobs shut.

I think the parents are, unfortunately, just a bit thick.

The Rushman Aug 20th 2019 5:46 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12639721)
She doesn't sound very bright at all, and clearly fell for some garbage at the age of 15

:rolleyes:
"Fell for some garbage".
What a touchy feely way of saying "Was a devout Muslim acting on Islamic teachings from the Qu'ran".


Former Lancastrian Feb 7th 2020 11:03 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Just in case anyone still gives a **** about her

SHAMIMA BEGUM has lost the first stage of her legal appeal against the decision to revoke her British citizenship.

The judgement by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) found Begum had not been improperly denied of her citizenship. Her lawyers put forward the case that Begum had been left stateless and therefore unable to mount a proper legal challenge.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...of-citizenship
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12...ride-baby-ISIS

Nutek Feb 7th 2020 11:22 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
She's still around then. That must be inconvenient.

BritInParis Feb 7th 2020 1:12 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
It always was a non-starter. Bangladeshi nationality law is clear that she is a citizen by descent and that she’s never visited Bangladesh or the Bangladeshi government doesn’t want her is irrelevant.

Boiler Feb 7th 2020 2:25 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Admittedly I only read the Guardian article but no mention of Streatham?


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