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Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:03 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
If you are asking whether I think the power of the state should be transparently limited by the rule of law, then the answer is yes.
I don't think that's clear actually. The law and judiciary are part of "the state" after all.

What it appears you mean is, you don't want politicians getting too big for their boots.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:04 pm
  #77  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by chawkins99 View Post
Blame multi-quote no-worky.

It wasn't specifically directed at you but at several posts that seem to hint that it was a purely political knee-jerk reaction by the home office without any in-depth investigation.
Got it, no worries. The multi-quote has always been no worky for me (only because I can't be arsed learning how to do it)
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:05 pm
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Over 100 have already been stripped over the last few years; we’re just talking about this one.The legislation and precedent are long established.
Yes, I remember the original citizenship-stripping thing going through 15 or so years ago. I wasn't happy then, either.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:11 pm
  #79  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Javid had no choice.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:17 pm
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
Javid had no choice.
Yes, politically it was his best move by far and possibly his only move. Popular support at a time when his government desperately needs it. Can you imagine the hue and cry if he had let her in. Now, if the courts do overrule him, it won't be his or his government's fault.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:20 pm
  #81  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
The most interesting thing in that statute is this:

"Before making an order under this section in respect of a person the Secretary of State must give the person written notice specifying—"

According to this article the letter:

"... asks her mother to pass on details of the order to her daughter, who is currently in a Syrian refugee camp without access to a phone".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...hip-be-stopped

I don't see how this is going to pass legal muster. A British official is going to have to serve her, not her mum. So something else for lawyers to latch onto.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bangladesh preemptively washing their hands of her if she doesn't currently hold a Bangladeshi passport.
In Germany you can serve a person that is not reachable through public announcement. You put up a notice on an official board and after four weeks the person is deemed to be served. I am quiet sure that similar models exist in the UK.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:22 pm
  #82  
 
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
I don't think that's clear actually. The law and judiciary are part of "the state" after all.

What it appears you mean is, you don't want politicians getting too big for their boots.
No, I mean the state. The courts of law are an arm of the state certainly, but established so that all are transparently governed by the same rules, equal under the law and not subject to the whims and desires of those currently in positions of power, be they politicians or bureaucrats.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:39 pm
  #83  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Well this is awkward - there is a good point here, which I also mentioned upthread.

As repugnant as this young woman's words and actions are, and as much as she in herself probably provides no value to the UK at all or anyone else very much, and as much as it's natural and understandable to want to keep her out (a feeling that I share at the personal level), I do worry about a minister, a functionary of the state, being able to remove someone's citizenship in absentia, at the stroke of a pen, no investigation and no due process at all. Just some bloke in an office.

This is not about any perceived injustice to her personally - I can't muster up any sympathy - but as a process, the ability of a government functionary to remove citizenship in this way strikes me as undesirable. I'm sure we can all imagine - and even recognize from not-too-distant history - situations where such powers have been appallingly misused.

I'll duck and cover now...
Well it had to happen at some point eh?

Shockingly I agree with the rest of your post as well.

I think we both need a sit down and a cup of tea.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:41 pm
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Yes, I remember the original citizenship-stripping thing going through 15 or so years ago. I wasn't happy then, either.
Neither was I and remain unhappy about it but it’s still the law.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:42 pm
  #85  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post

I think we both need a sit down and a cup of tea.
I think we all do!
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:42 pm
  #86  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Yes, she has exhibited morally repugnant views. If those can be shown to break the law she should be suitably punished.
And the best punishment for her would be NOT to get a cozy life on benefits back in UK.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 1:50 pm
  #87  
 
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Well it had to happen at some point eh?

Shockingly I agree with the rest of your post as well.

I think we both need a sit down and a cup of tea.
Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Neither was I and remain unhappy about it but it’s still the law.
Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I think we all do!

And a biscuit.

Something uncontroversial, like the Digestive.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 2:19 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
And a biscuit.

Something uncontroversial, like the Digestive.
I hope that's a British digestive .....
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 2:32 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
Over 100 have already been stripped over the last few years; we’re just talking about this one. The legislation and precedent are long established.
And its not just the UK either. Very common to read of cases in the Australian news as similar laws exist over here.
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Old Feb 20th 2019, 2:46 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

What would be interesting, now that she has time on her hands, would be some in-depth journalistic interviews into WHY she converted to Isis. What happened in her life, community between the ages 12-15 that made her feel compelled to join this Islamic struggle in a war zone. What videos did she watch? Who persuaded her? Why did she feel the need to reject Britain.
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