Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Mar 12th 2019, 6:37 pm
#736
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
only if they are actual terrorists
Is your idea that a dead Isis supporter, their wife and child us better than a live Isis supporter, wife and child...
Mar 12th 2019, 7:12 pm
#737
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,786
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by EMR
How does a bomb or missile tell the difference..
Is your idea that a dead Isis supporter, their wife and child us better than a live Isis supporter, wife and child...
Is your idea that a dead Isis supporter, their wife and child us better than a live Isis supporter, wife and child...
Mar 12th 2019, 7:20 pm
#738
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
don't be silly.. the pilot's can work it out or we just send the special forces to do it, bin laden wasn't killed by a bomb.
Mar 12th 2019, 9:19 pm
#740
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 33,980
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by macliam
Denied what? Has she admitted carrying out any crimes, has she been charged? As far as I have seen she has said she was a housewife - and her husband has said the same. I think what she did is wrong, I think her beliefs are wrong, I despair that an apparently intelligent young woman chooses to forego the comforts of western privilege. Any misdeeds on her part should be punished, but under the law, not by casting her out and destroying her by proxy.
There is no king and precious few absolute powers, so you would have to abide by legal process. Belief in something that others find abhorrent is not punishable - there are plenty of people in the UK who would be in trouble if it were. Only if crimes are committed and proven can punishment take place (apart, of course, from those incarcerated without trial or charge in Guantanamo - who could not be treated in the same way in mainland USA). Are you suggesting that this is another case where normal mores should be put aside? To do so is a slippery slope.....
There is no king and precious few absolute powers, so you would have to abide by legal process. Belief in something that others find abhorrent is not punishable - there are plenty of people in the UK who would be in trouble if it were. Only if crimes are committed and proven can punishment take place (apart, of course, from those incarcerated without trial or charge in Guantanamo - who could not be treated in the same way in mainland USA). Are you suggesting that this is another case where normal mores should be put aside? To do so is a slippery slope.....
The legal system you describe is the one that I grew up with and certainly my preference. If you look at it globally and long term I can not help think I have lived in an unusual time and place.
I question that it can survive where we are going, from a philosophical perspective it is interesting to see how this happens. Something I never really understood growing up, history was a major interest, I think I do now.
Usually one person has little impact, so from that perspective perhaps it is unlikely to matter what happens to her. But nice to have a small victory.
Mar 13th 2019, 7:37 am
#741
idealist
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6,402
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by macliam
No - there is no charge of "guilt by association", except in the court of public opinion.
So, all white South Africans who lived there during apartheid are racists - or just the UK migrants who moved there?
Just to prove how easy it is , I went to Pizza hut, but I didn't have a pizza, although it was touch and go for a bit
Last edited by stevenglish1; Mar 13th 2019 at 8:20 am.
Mar 13th 2019, 9:20 am
#742
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
Are you saying bin laden wasn't killed by special forces?
Mar 13th 2019, 11:16 am
#743
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 16,967
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by stevenglish1
Just to prove how easy it is , I went to Pizza hut, but I didn't have a pizza, although it was touch and go for a bit
Mar 13th 2019, 12:54 pm
#744
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,786
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by EMR
No but thousands of non combatants.have been killed in air strikes and other military actions .
Mar 13th 2019, 1:06 pm
#745
F.orum Ape
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,709
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
But killing terrorists before they kill you was the point, not killing civilians. Not sure why you'd be against killing terrorists.
Mar 13th 2019, 1:15 pm
#747
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
But killing terrorists before they kill you was the point, not killing civilians. Not sure why you'd be against killing terrorists.
Mar 13th 2019, 1:21 pm
#749
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 33,980
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by Shard
No sure. Just a bit hesitant about bombing assumed terrorists.
I think that is my point, and why I came to my conclusion. It is an asymmetrical situation.
Mar 13th 2019, 1:31 pm
#750
Resident Cynic
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 7,863
Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
Originally Posted by stevenglish1
No there isn't, if she'd stayed in the UK the worst that would've happened was being done for membership of a proscribed organisation. She didn't though, she ran away to actively join a death cult, I'd say that's a bit more than just association.
Originally Posted by stevenglish1
Anyone can move to Syria and NOT join ISIS, I'd imagine it's pretty easy .
Originally Posted by stevenglish1
Just to prove how easy it is , I went to Pizza hut, but I didn't have a pizza, although it was touch and go for a bit
You have already decided she is "guilty" and are just trying to justify your stance. However, your view that she is guilty is just your personal opinion, not fact.
