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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

EMR Mar 12th 2019 5:37 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by anotherlimey (Post 12652389)
only if they are actual terrorists

How does a bomb or missile tell the difference..
Is your idea that a dead Isis supporter, their wife and child us better than a live Isis supporter, wife and child...

anotherlimey Mar 12th 2019 6:12 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12652402)
How does a bomb or missile tell the difference..
Is your idea that a dead Isis supporter, their wife and child us better than a live Isis supporter, wife and child...

don't be silly.. the pilot's can work it out or we just send the special forces to do it, bin laden wasn't killed by a bomb.

EMR Mar 12th 2019 6:20 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by anotherlimey (Post 12652427)
don't be silly.. the pilot's can work it out or we just send the special forces to do it, bin laden wasn't killed by a bomb.

You have been reading too many comics or playing too many computor games.

anotherlimey Mar 12th 2019 6:24 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12652431)
You have been reading too many comics or playing too many computor games.

Are you saying bin laden wasn't killed by special forces?


Boiler Mar 12th 2019 8:19 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12652197)
Denied what? Has she admitted carrying out any crimes, has she been charged? As far as I have seen she has said she was a housewife - and her husband has said the same. I think what she did is wrong, I think her beliefs are wrong, I despair that an apparently intelligent young woman chooses to forego the comforts of western privilege. Any misdeeds on her part should be punished, but under the law, not by casting her out and destroying her by proxy.

There is no king and precious few absolute powers, so you would have to abide by legal process. Belief in something that others find abhorrent is not punishable - there are plenty of people in the UK who would be in trouble if it were. Only if crimes are committed and proven can punishment take place (apart, of course, from those incarcerated without trial or charge in Guantanamo - who could not be treated in the same way in mainland USA). Are you suggesting that this is another case where normal mores should be put aside? To do so is a slippery slope.....

I thought it was pretty obvious that I have no control over the situation so what I think is pretty irrelevant to what will happen. She obviously is an active supporter, filmed saying so and it would be unreasonable to suppose that someone will come up with a photo of her up to some specific actionable no good.

The legal system you describe is the one that I grew up with and certainly my preference. If you look at it globally and long term I can not help think I have lived in an unusual time and place.

I question that it can survive where we are going, from a philosophical perspective it is interesting to see how this happens. Something I never really understood growing up, history was a major interest, I think I do now.

Usually one person has little impact, so from that perspective perhaps it is unlikely to matter what happens to her. But nice to have a small victory.

stevenglish1 Mar 13th 2019 6:37 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12652166)
No - there is no charge of "guilt by association", except in the court of public opinion.

No there isn't, if she'd stayed in the UK the worst that would've happened was being done for membership of a proscribed organisation. She didn't though, she ran away to actively join a death cult, I'd say that's a bit more than just association.



So, all white South Africans who lived there during apartheid are racists - or just the UK migrants who moved there?
Anyone can move to Syria and NOT join ISIS, I'd imagine it's pretty easy .

Just to prove how easy it is , I went to Pizza hut, but I didn't have a pizza, although it was touch and go for a bit

EMR Mar 13th 2019 8:20 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by anotherlimey (Post 12652434)
Are you saying bin laden wasn't killed by special forces?

No but thousands of non combatants.have been killed in air strikes and other military actions .

spouse of scouse Mar 13th 2019 10:16 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12652661)

Just to prove how easy it is , I went to Pizza hut, but I didn't have a pizza, although it was touch and go for a bit

I can understand you foregoing a meat lovers, but to be there and not order a barbeque chicken pizza? That took real strength!

anotherlimey Mar 13th 2019 11:54 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12652677)
No but thousands of non combatants.have been killed in air strikes and other military actions .

But killing terrorists before they kill you was the point, not killing civilians. Not sure why you'd be against killing terrorists.

Shard Mar 13th 2019 12:06 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by anotherlimey (Post 12652810)
But killing terrorists before they kill you was the point, not killing civilians. Not sure why you'd be against killing terrorists.

Mistaken identity? Collateral damage? Creating martyrs?

Boiler Mar 13th 2019 12:11 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12652832)
Mistaken identity? Collateral damage? Creating martyrs?

So what's the plan? How do you handle this?

EMR Mar 13th 2019 12:15 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by anotherlimey (Post 12652810)
But killing terrorists before they kill you was the point, not killing civilians. Not sure why you'd be against killing terrorists.

Not against killing terrorists , but killing innocent women and children whether a deliberate calculation, a policy , or side effect which creates more terrorists..

Shard Mar 13th 2019 12:16 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12652837)
So what's the plan? How do you handle this?

No sure. Just a bit hesitant about bombing assumed terrorists.

Boiler Mar 13th 2019 12:21 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12652841)
No sure. Just a bit hesitant about bombing assumed terrorists.

I felt a bit mean about doing that to you, sometimes replies can come across as too personal.

I think that is my point, and why I came to my conclusion. It is an asymmetrical situation.

macliam Mar 13th 2019 12:31 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12652661)
No there isn't, if she'd stayed in the UK the worst that would've happened was being done for membership of a proscribed organisation. She didn't though, she ran away to actively join a death cult, I'd say that's a bit more than just association.

In your opinion - in hers it was to move to a declared caliphate. Both are equally wrong. In any case, unless she actively committed a crime it is still guilt by association.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12652661)
Anyone can move to Syria and NOT join ISIS, I'd imagine it's pretty easy .

Let's be accurate, she moved to the caliphate, not territory controlled by Syria.

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12652661)
Just to prove how easy it is , I went to Pizza hut, but I didn't have a pizza, although it was touch and go for a bit

But, according to your logic, by going there you have justified their sale of pizzas.

You have already decided she is "guilty" and are just trying to justify your stance. However, your view that she is guilty is just your personal opinion, not fact.


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