Expatrick

104 in 2017, apparently.

spouse of scouse

Yes.

Lion in Winter

This young woman's life is effectively over and she has no more children for us to worry about.

Really I think we would be better off focusing on a)the domestic conditions that allow such ideologies to gain any sort of foothold in teenagers' minds in the UK (Dickens had it right, "ignorance and want" play a huge role in this shit) and b)ceasing to arm the Middle East and manipulating its rivalries and conflicts in which thousands upon thousands die for the geo/econo/polital aims of other countries who only feel the fallout on their own soil from time to time with the occasional terrorist attack. We, along with residents of a few other countries, should be pressuring our governments to act to stop these problems at the source rather than fighting among ourselves over the single person that has been offered up to distract us.

Shard

Have been wanting to say this.

Boiler

There is absolutely no way that could happen, can you imagine the outrage?

macliam

No "abuse" intended or given, just straight talking. So don't use other's tricks of crying foul when you have no answers, because "Someone like me" has no fear of you. But then, you seem to feel justified in suggesting that I am an "apologist" in an attempt to demean my arguments, when anyone can judge from my previous comments my abhorrence of entities like daesh (and I use that term because they themselves hate it and I refuse to give them any validity, even in abbreviation).

I note your emotive call regarding the victims of attacks - I wonder if their loved ones would be happy for you to use them to support your views, but again, this has nothing directly to do with the case in hand. All losses due to a failure to intercept extremists are tragic - the difference is that these are victims of criminal actions, not of quasi-legal process by an elected government. We need to prevent radicalization and improve interception - not to believe that we will be safe if we remove all the known agents - because events have proved that doesn't work either - unless you think internment in NI was a success.

Lion in Winter

Not so much outrage, as the sound of certain interests and entities protecting their wealth and profits. War is a racket, most of the time.

Boiler

You keep on using the term Extremist, I have seen nothing to suggest these victims consider their actions extreme.

Or for that matter radical.

Boiler

I was thinking of sections of the Media and Activists.

macliam

Can you advise me of the specific punishments meted out to the wives and families of Nazis? You can only prosecute and convict someone for actions where they are responsible - not for the actions of others.

If we go down the road of punishing everyone who supports a terrorist, we do not emulate the Allied powers who defeated Nazism, but of the Nazis themselves.

macliam

Semantics. Always a good distraction.
Well, the first step for a recovering alcoholic is to admit he is one, so nothing new there. Perhaps we should not call psychopaths abnormal, because they don't see themselves as such?

Lion in Winter

If we improve the quality of public education, employment opportunity, decent housing, etc? Yes, I can definitely see some complaining about that in certain circles.

Boiler

In this particular case she was 15 and a A Student, so not sure how that would apply, most others seem to be relatively comfortable, her Father went back and married a second wife but the rest of the family stayed. He travels it seems so has money.

There are and have been people much worse off but they do not engage in such activities.

stevenglish1

Calling someone thick for their views is abuse however you slice it, I wonder if that was meant to demean my argument, it would seem so wouldn't it .Frankly you'd be a bit odder than I think you are if you were afraid of any anonymous person on the internet, and the fact that you think you're somehow courageous for 'standing up to me' is rather silly isn't it? You hold the entity responsible eh? Well it's people who share her and her husband's views that feed that entity and keep it alive, so you'll forgive me if I don't want people like that roaming our streets.

My emotive language comes from this thing called empathy, whereby I look at the kids killed in Manchester and think to myself 'Criky, what if that were my kids?' I'm fairly sure the families would be blaming security services for dismissing the threat posed as insignificant, particularly in the Manchester case. Tragic is understatement of the century, the result of gross neglegence is far more fitting I'd say, would tragic cut the mustard if heaven forbid one of yours had been among the dead?

stevenglish1

Ah I see my location comes into play again, tell me, as I'm in Australia does that make me a racist who hates Abo's blah blah blah, you need to change that record it totally undermines any good points you may have. They could just as easily be radicalized in the UK, where they let the likes of Anjem Chowdry out after what, 2 years of a 5 1/2 rear sentence? The people who make these decisions never seem to be taking chances with their own safety do they?