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Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Old Mar 10th 2019, 1:27 pm
  #646  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

She is not the 1st to be stripped of her citizenship either.
104 in 2017, apparently.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 1:33 pm
  #647  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
Let the courts decide her situation.
Yes.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 3:00 pm
  #648  
 
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

This young woman's life is effectively over and she has no more children for us to worry about.

Really I think we would be better off focusing on a)the domestic conditions that allow such ideologies to gain any sort of foothold in teenagers' minds in the UK (Dickens had it right, "ignorance and want" play a huge role in this shit) and b)ceasing to arm the Middle East and manipulating its rivalries and conflicts in which thousands upon thousands die for the geo/econo/polital aims of other countries who only feel the fallout on their own soil from time to time with the occasional terrorist attack. We, along with residents of a few other countries, should be pressuring our governments to act to stop these problems at the source rather than fighting among ourselves over the single person that has been offered up to distract us.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 3:34 pm
  #649  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
This young woman's life is effectively over and she has no more children for us to worry about.

Really I think we would be better off focusing on a)the domestic conditions that allow such ideologies to gain any sort of foothold in teenagers' minds in the UK (Dickens had it right, "ignorance and want" play a huge role in this shit) and b)ceasing to arm the Middle East and manipulating its rivalries and conflicts in which thousands upon thousands die for the geo/econo/polital aims of other countries who only feel the fallout on their own soil from time to time with the occasional terrorist attack. We, along with residents of a few other countries, should be pressuring our governments to act to stop these problems at the source rather than fighting among ourselves over the single person that has been offered up to distract us.

Have been wanting to say this.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 4:09 pm
  #650  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
This young woman's life is effectively over and she has no more children for us to worry about.

Really I think we would be better off focusing on a)the domestic conditions that allow such ideologies to gain any sort of foothold in teenagers' minds in the UK (Dickens had it right, "ignorance and want" play a huge role in this shit) and b)ceasing to arm the Middle East and manipulating its rivalries and conflicts in which thousands upon thousands die for the geo/econo/polital aims of other countries who only feel the fallout on their own soil from time to time with the occasional terrorist attack. We, along with residents of a few other countries, should be pressuring our governments to act to stop these problems at the source rather than fighting among ourselves over the single person that has been offered up to distract us.
There is absolutely no way that could happen, can you imagine the outrage?
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 8:04 pm
  #651  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
If you want to get abusive then bring it on, I have some real doozies lined up for someone like you.

This monitoring lark you're a fan of, d'you think Lee Rigby's mum is a fan, considering her boy's murderers were known to security services? Or what about Salman Ramadan Abedi? He was known to security services but deemed low risk. D'you reckon the parents of the 22 dead from the Manchester arena bombings are fans of your 'monitoring' ? You sound like a pathetic apologist.
No "abuse" intended or given, just straight talking. So don't use other's tricks of crying foul when you have no answers, because "Someone like me" has no fear of you. But then, you seem to feel justified in suggesting that I am an "apologist" in an attempt to demean my arguments, when anyone can judge from my previous comments my abhorrence of entities like daesh (and I use that term because they themselves hate it and I refuse to give them any validity, even in abbreviation).

I note your emotive call regarding the victims of attacks - I wonder if their loved ones would be happy for you to use them to support your views, but again, this has nothing directly to do with the case in hand. All losses due to a failure to intercept extremists are tragic - the difference is that these are victims of criminal actions, not of quasi-legal process by an elected government. We need to prevent radicalization and improve interception - not to believe that we will be safe if we remove all the known agents - because events have proved that doesn't work either - unless you think internment in NI was a success.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 8:08 pm
  #652  
 
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
There is absolutely no way that could happen, can you imagine the outrage?

Not so much outrage, as the sound of certain interests and entities protecting their wealth and profits. War is a racket, most of the time.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 8:09 pm
  #653  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
No "abuse" intended or given, just straight talking. So don't use other's tricks of crying foul when you have no answers, because "Someone like me" has no fear of you. But then, you seem to feel justified in suggesting that I am an "apologist" in an attempt to demean my arguments, when anyone can judge from my previous comments my abhorrence of entities like daesh (and I use that term because they themselves hate it and I refuse to give them any validity, even in abbreviation).

I note your emotive call regarding the victims of attacks - I wonder if their loved ones would be happy for you to use them to support your views, but again, this has nothing directly to do with the case in hand. All losses due to a failure to intercept extremists are tragic - the difference is that these are victims of criminal actions, not of quasi-legal process by an elected government. We need to prevent radicalization and improve interception - not to believe that we will be safe if we remove all the known agents - because events have proved that doesn't work either - unless you think internment in NI was a success.
You keep on using the term Extremist, I have seen nothing to suggest these victims consider their actions extreme.

Or for that matter radical.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 8:10 pm
  #654  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Not so much outrage, as the sound of certain interests and entities protecting their wealth and profits. War is a racket, most of the time.
I was thinking of sections of the Media and Activists.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 8:11 pm
  #655  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
What I don't understand is why we should show mercy to IS wives. They supported a murderous genocidal system that enslaved, raped and killed on mass. These wives should be called what they are IS supportes and members. Without them IS wouldn't have worked. They were slave holders and masters. They cannot hide behind their motherhood. They are guilty as much as German Nazis wifes were guilty. There's no way you can return them to the comforts of Western states and let them raise their kids in peace. They belong punished just as much as their husbands.

Yazidi women endured years of Islamic slavery
Can you advise me of the specific punishments meted out to the wives and families of Nazis? You can only prosecute and convict someone for actions where they are responsible - not for the actions of others.

If we go down the road of punishing everyone who supports a terrorist, we do not emulate the Allied powers who defeated Nazism, but of the Nazis themselves.
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 8:15 pm
  #656  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
You keep on using the term Extremist, I have seen nothing to suggest these victims consider their actions extreme.

Or for that matter radical.
Semantics. Always a good distraction.
Well, the first step for a recovering alcoholic is to admit he is one, so nothing new there. Perhaps we should not call psychopaths abnormal, because they don't see themselves as such?
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Old Mar 10th 2019, 8:22 pm
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
I was thinking of sections of the Media and Activists.
If we improve the quality of public education, employment opportunity, decent housing, etc? Yes, I can definitely see some complaining about that in certain circles.

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Old Mar 10th 2019, 8:28 pm
  #658  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
If we improve the quality of public education, employment opportunity, decent housing, etc? Yes, I can definitely see some complaining about that in certain circles.
In this particular case she was 15 and a A Student, so not sure how that would apply, most others seem to be relatively comfortable, her Father went back and married a second wife but the rest of the family stayed. He travels it seems so has money.

There are and have been people much worse off but they do not engage in such activities.
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 7:33 am
  #659  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
No "abuse" intended or given, just straight talking. So don't use other's tricks of crying foul when you have no answers, because "Someone like me" has no fear of you. But then, you seem to feel justified in suggesting that I am an "apologist" in an attempt to demean my arguments, when anyone can judge from my previous comments my abhorrence of entities like daesh (and I use that term because they themselves hate it and I refuse to give them any validity, even in abbreviation).

I note your emotive call regarding the victims of attacks - I wonder if their loved ones would be happy for you to use them to support your views, but again, this has nothing directly to do with the case in hand. All losses due to a failure to intercept extremists are tragic - the difference is that these are victims of criminal actions, not of quasi-legal process by an elected government. We need to prevent radicalization and improve interception - not to believe that we will be safe if we remove all the known agents - because events have proved that doesn't work either - unless you think internment in NI was a success.
Calling someone thick for their views is abuse however you slice it, I wonder if that was meant to demean my argument, it would seem so wouldn't it .Frankly you'd be a bit odder than I think you are if you were afraid of any anonymous person on the internet, and the fact that you think you're somehow courageous for 'standing up to me' is rather silly isn't it? You hold the entity responsible eh? Well it's people who share her and her husband's views that feed that entity and keep it alive, so you'll forgive me if I don't want people like that roaming our streets.

My emotive language comes from this thing called empathy, whereby I look at the kids killed in Manchester and think to myself 'Criky, what if that were my kids?' I'm fairly sure the families would be blaming security services for dismissing the threat posed as insignificant, particularly in the Manchester case. Tragic is understatement of the century, the result of gross neglegence is far more fitting I'd say, would tragic cut the mustard if heaven forbid one of yours had been among the dead?

Last edited by stevenglish1; Mar 11th 2019 at 7:55 am.
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Old Mar 11th 2019, 7:51 am
  #660  
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Default Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
But where is the offer to take the children to a place of safety ?
Why should they pay for the crimes of their parents.
leaving them there means 5 more potential recruits for Isis.
You would be the first to rant if in a few years one of them was found to be behind attacks in the UK. ( not that you are in the UK ).
Ah I see my location comes into play again, tell me, as I'm in Australia does that make me a racist who hates Abo's blah blah blah, you need to change that record it totally undermines any good points you may have. They could just as easily be radicalized in the UK, where they let the likes of Anjem Chowdry out after what, 2 years of a 5 1/2 rear sentence? The people who make these decisions never seem to be taking chances with their own safety do they?
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