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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

macliam Feb 25th 2019 2:42 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12643267)
Unless you’re actually going to engage with the relevant legislation rather than just posting newspaper articles I think we are just wasting our time here.

You may be correct - I am not qualified to interpret the laws of another state, therefore I look to those who are, whether reported in newspapers or not..
If you feel so qualified, so be it, however your interpretation does not appear to be shared by others, so there seems sufficient doubt to question the actions of the Home Secretary.
As you have said, under British legislation, he has the executive power to remove citizenship regardless - but I believe his claim that this did not make the subject stateless is not proven and I'm afraid your insistence to the contrary does not convince me any more than your earlier diagnosis of psychopathy.

BritInParis Feb 25th 2019 2:47 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12643275)
You may be correct - I am not qualified to interpret the laws of another state, therefore I look to those who are, whether reported in newspapers or not..
If you feel so qualified, so be it, however your interpretation does not appear to be shared by others, so there seems sufficient doubt to question the actions of the Home Secretary.
As you have said, under British legislation, he has the executive power to remove citizenship regardless - but I believe his claim that this did not make the subject stateless is not proven and I'm afraid your insistence to the contrary does not convince me any more than your earlier diagnosis of psychopathy.

If you prefer newspaper articles then you can find an excellent summary of the legal precedent here:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...e-to-take-her/

EMR Feb 25th 2019 8:23 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BEVS (Post 12643243)
- and that is fine. Then you would be reading up on said process and thinking for yourself how it could be updated and improved to be more relevant and current for the difficulties now faced regarding home security & the like. This thread being about ISIS radicals seeking repatriation .

One doesn't have to agree with or 'like' a process but it does and will have been followed.

I suppose for you a question might be
Should the process have been applied more rigorously previously
Should it not be applied.
Should it be more lenient
Should something be added to the process before a final decision is made. Someone whether we like it or not has to make that call.

Let us not suppose any difference between the genders or their supposed roles here. These are all radical jihadists that identify with the beliefs and MO of ISIS and Daesh.

The question I ask and have asked and I believe is that the process was manipulated for political reasons at a time the government desperately needs distractions from the mess it is in. .
Its " claim " no proof that she presents a danger to the UK.
Its " claim " no proof that she has dual citizenship and is therefore not stateless..
This will be challenged in the courts ..
Our recent government's do not have an enviable record when it's decisions are challenged in the courts..

materialcontroller Feb 25th 2019 10:06 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12643338)
This will be challenged in the courts ..
Our recent government's do not have an enviable record when it's decisions are challenged in the courts..

That may well be a problem with the judiciary and the law rather than the respective governments. You should at least be open to that being a possibility too.

EMR Feb 25th 2019 10:13 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12643381)
That may well be a problem with the judiciary and the law rather than the respective governments. You should at least be open to that being a possibility too.

You mean the law defending our rights and liberties rather than opportunist politicians ..

materialcontroller Feb 25th 2019 10:15 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12643390)
You mean the law defending our rights and liberties rather than opportunist politicians ..

I don't have that much of a regard for either. Both the law and politicians can be subverted and are open to abuse.

paulry Feb 25th 2019 1:25 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BEVS (Post 12643227)
Regardless of that opinion, due process following consultation & advice will have been followed.

As much as most of us would be happy to see her rot in a refugee camp, it's highly likely that the decision will be overturned and as that woman panelist (I forget her name) on this weeks Question Time said: She was born, raised and radicalised in the UK. Our country is responsible for her. The inconvenient truth is she's right.

BritInParis Feb 25th 2019 2:22 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12643338)
The question I ask and have asked and I believe is that the process was manipulated for political reasons at a time the government desperately needs distractions from the mess it is in. .
Its " claim " no proof that she presents a danger to the UK.
Its " claim " no proof that she has dual citizenship and is therefore not stateless..
This will be challenged in the courts ..
Our recent government's do not have an enviable record when it's decisions are challenged in the courts..

150 successful deprivations say otherwise.

EMR Feb 25th 2019 2:33 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12643482)
150 successful deprivations say otherwise.

Each case is judged on its own merits.
That is how the law works..
The UK record is a joke , look at the case of 6 year old Mohamed Bangoura,.

Boiler Feb 25th 2019 3:37 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
I have already mention one is hardly significant in the bigger picture.

Nobody knows what the likely numbers are but seems reasonable to assume the 150 number BiP is not that significant either.

So from the big picture perspective does it really matter?, seems more a moral issue. And I would imagine that is what drives the reaction.

BritInParis Feb 25th 2019 7:02 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12643493)
Each case is judged on its own merits.
That is how the law works..
The UK record is a joke , look at the case of 6 year old Mohamed Bangoura,.

HMPO should’ve never issued him with a passport but I’m not exactly sure what that has to do with successfully appealing a deprivation of British citizenship.

BritInParis Feb 25th 2019 7:07 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12643536)
I have already mention one is hardly significant in the bigger picture.

Nobody knows what the likely numbers are but seems reasonable to assume the 150 number BiP is not that significant either.

So from the big picture perspective does it really matter?, seems more a moral issue. And I would imagine that is what drives the reaction.

Begum had notoriety because The Times splashed an interview with her over its front page. It wasn’t able to do that with the other 150 as they were fighting with ISIS in Syria and Iraq at the time. Some comparable cases were the two surviving ‘Beatles’, stripped whilst in Kurdish custody, which was reported but for whom no-one has much sympathy for. Ditto for the child groomers deprived and deported to Pakistan.

EMR Feb 25th 2019 8:16 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12643710)
HMPO should’ve never issued him with a passport but I’m not exactly sure what that has to do with successfully appealing a deprivation of British citizenship.

Proof that the " process" does not always work or is fair and just.

BritInParis Feb 25th 2019 8:55 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12643779)
Proof that the " process" does not always work or is fair and just.

It’s not but never mind.

BEVS Feb 25th 2019 9:20 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by paulry (Post 12643454)
As much as most of us would be happy to see her rot in a refugee camp, it's highly likely that the decision will be overturned and as that woman panelist (I forget her name) on this weeks Question Time said: She was born, raised and radicalised in the UK. Our country is responsible for her. The inconvenient truth is she's right.


The UK may be made to be obliged to take her back. However the UK and people of the UK are still not 'responsible' for her.

I personally feel there is too much easy use of the word 'radicalised'. Many may simply have liked & were drawn to the idea of the Caliphate and all it stood for. After all there were no hidden secret surprises about it really. World news and ISIS themselves ensured everyone knew what they were about .

Where she was born remains uncertain. She was certainly given the privilege of being raised and educated in the UK. This she utterly rejected.

I agree Boiler that she is just one of many & what to do with these people is a problem for many countries now. This one though was a poster girl for ISIS . She has also touted the media whilst pregnant and now with a newborn. That highlighted this particular ISIS person. One does have to wonder if people would be so againsther being kept at bay if it were not for her gender and the new born baby.

Of course there is the other angle here which people are concerned about with regards to political motivation , which is also the Pakistan gambit here , and to the due process as the legislation currently stands.

Given that this problem of these dreadful people will not vanish into thin air , all of this will need to considered .

FWIW these ISIS people are also causing harm within the Syrian refugee camp that has offered them cover. They had to be segregated to keep the Syrian refugees safe.


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