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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

Boiler Feb 24th 2019 2:34 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Apparently it is more important to be morally right than factually correct.

EMR Feb 24th 2019 2:40 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12642894)

We've seen evidence presented here which suggests it was legal for the Home Secretary to act as he did (in fact your later post alludes to this). That's good enough for me. I put my trust in the authorities, so that I don't have to worry about the minutae of every course of action.

You keep talking about morality, so I assume that's the basis of your objections, not necessarily any indications of illegality. In that case, you and me are on totally different pages as far as cases such as these are concerned.

So you approved the Windrush scandal, the imprisonment of the countless others later found to be innocent when the trust of the authotities eas proved to be anything but just.
What sets us apart from Isis is that we do not have a moronic trust in those who claim to know better than us...

materialcontroller Feb 24th 2019 2:46 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12642896)
Apparently it is more important to be morally right than factually correct.

It certainly seems to be the modern disease, when everyone has an online profile of some sort and some people view that as something to be curated for the benefit of the audience.

EMR Feb 24th 2019 3:14 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12642904)
It certainly seems to be the modern disease, when everyone has an online profile of some sort and some people view that as something to be curated for the benefit of the audience.

Other modern diseases, such as Isis and many others.

materialcontroller Feb 24th 2019 3:19 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12642930)
Other modern diseases, such as Isis and many others.

I don't care about ISIS as, generally speaking, I'm not exposed to them in my everyday life. We have a government, security services and other agencies to take that responsibility on my behalf so that I don't have to worry or think about it.

OTOH I am exposed, daily, to an increasing amount of self righteous online preachers all busy virtue signalling their belief in their own moral superiority.

EMR Feb 24th 2019 3:31 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12642935)
I don't care about ISIS as, generally speaking, I'm not exposed to them in my everyday life. We have a government, security services and other agencies to take that responsibility on my behalf so that I don't have to worry or think about it.

OTOH I am exposed, daily, to an increasing amount of self righteous online preachers all busy virtue signalling their belief in their own moral superiority.

History is full off those like you sat back, never questioned anything and let those they trusted in remove their liberties Tec.
Fortunately the UK is not like that..

Boiler Feb 24th 2019 3:34 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12642939)
History is full off those like you sat back, never questioned anything and let those they trusted in remove their liberties Tec.
Fortunately the UK is not like that..

How many liberties do you think you will have under ISIS?

EMR Feb 24th 2019 3:44 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12642944)
How many liberties do you think you will have under ISIS?

Very few equally just as few under any government that acts ignoring the laws of its nation and objects to those who question its actions,

Boiler Feb 24th 2019 3:47 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12642950)
Very few equally just as few under any government that acts ignoring the laws of its nation and objects to those who question its actions,

So basically they are equivalent, now I understand where you are coming from.

EMR Feb 24th 2019 3:53 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12642951)
So basically they are equivalent, now I understand where you are coming from.

No you do not understand but you being a Trump supporter I would not expect you to....

macliam Feb 24th 2019 6:08 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12642894)

We've seen evidence presented here which suggests it was legal for the Home Secretary to act as he did (in fact your later post alludes to this). That's good enough for me. I put my trust in the authorities, so that I don't have to worry about the minutae of every course of action.

You keep talking about morality, so I assume that's the basis of your objections, not necessarily any indications of illegality. In that case, you and me are on totally different pages as far as cases such as these are concerned.


Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12642904)
It certainly seems to be the modern disease, when everyone has an online profile of some sort and some people view that as something to be curated for the benefit of the audience.


Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12642935)
I don't care about ISIS as, generally speaking, I'm not exposed to them in my everyday life. We have a government, security services and other agencies to take that responsibility on my behalf so that I don't have to worry or think about it.

OTOH I am exposed, daily, to an increasing amount of self righteous online preachers all busy virtue signalling their belief in their own moral superiority.

I have said nothing to suggest any legality in Javid's actions, quite the opposite, although you are correct that I talk about morality, because morality should be the basis for legality - or do you approve of immoral laws?

However, unable to counter the views I have expressed, you prefer instead to denigrate both them and me - no surprise. I am far from self-righteous, but I am certainly not willing to be shouted down or to see any government, left or right, trample on the human rights of an individual, even where I may have little sympathy for the individual in question. This is not "virtue signalling", it is self-preservation. As Martin Niemoeller said about the use of "legal" powers in Germany

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."


Of course, these days Niemoeller would be dismissed as a "virtue-signalling libtard" and people would be at pains to point out that the government "coming for" the individuals had been voted into power and had legal backing for their actions.

stevenglish1 Feb 24th 2019 8:04 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12643023)
I have said nothing to suggest any legality in Javid's actions, quite the opposite, although you are correct that I talk about morality, because morality should be the basis for legality - or do you approve of immoral laws?

However, unable to counter the views I have expressed, you prefer instead to denigrate both them and me - no surprise. I am far from self-righteous, but I am certainly not willing to be shouted down or to see any government, left or right, trample on the human rights of an individual, even where I may have little sympathy for the individual in question. This is not "virtue signalling", it is self-preservation. As Martin Niemoeller said about the use of "legal" powers in Germany

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."


Of course, these days Niemoeller would be dismissed as a "virtue-signalling libtard" and people would be at pains to point out that the government "coming for" the individuals had been voted into power and had legal backing for their actions.

As far as I'm aware the the Socialists, unionists and Jews didn't advocate the beheading of charity workers. I've seen that Neimoellr one used in defence of Paedophiles on this site as well.

EMR Feb 24th 2019 8:22 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12643079)
As far as I'm aware the the Socialists, unionists and Jews didn't advocate the beheading of charity workers. I've seen that Neimoellr one used in defence of Paedophiles on this site as well.

No they just paid the price imposed by those who abandoned the fair legal process and reconstructed it for political convenience..

Anyone would think that you believe thoss who believe in the process of law support Isis.

But then given your reaction to the jailing of Tommy Robinson another spreader of hate and intolerance the application of law for you is a matter of personal preference

The law is what sets us apart from Begun and Robinson but to which both are entitled to its potection however distatefull we think .they are.

stevenglish1 Feb 24th 2019 8:28 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12643085)
No they just paid the price imposed by those who abandoned the fair legal process and reconstructed it for political convenience..

Anyone would think that you believe thoss who believe in the process of law support Isis.

But then given your reaction to the jailing of Tommy Robinson another spreader of hate and intolerance the application of law for you is a matter of personal preference ..

And there we have EMR getting personal again. Well done

paulry Feb 24th 2019 8:33 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12642954)
No you do not understand but you being a Trump supporter I would not expect you to....


Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12643085)
But then given your reaction to the jailing of Tommy Robinson another spreader of hate and intolerance the application of law for you is a matter of personal preference ..


Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12643089)
And there we have EMR getting personal again. Well done

It's standard form from him when he's lost the argument.




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