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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

macliam Feb 24th 2019 8:51 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12642649)
She doesn't deserve civilized though, like it or not she made her own bed, no tears would be shed for her.

Good to see that British fair play is still alive and well......
So quick to judge, so eager to avoid responsibility.
What admirable qualities you display.

macliam Feb 24th 2019 8:54 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12642651)
Child can also live with Grandfather and his wife.

Like you care.
Like the mother, out of sight, out of mind.

stevenglish1 Feb 24th 2019 9:07 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12642731)
Good to see that British fair play is still alive and well......
So quick to judge, so eager to avoid responsibility.
What admirable qualities you display.

So someone buggers off to join a terrorist organization, hates the west, not bothered by heads in dustbins, defends the murder of innocent members of the public and you criticize MY qualities. That's about the funniest thing I've read on here, I mean why on earth would you accept the responsibility to do something that can't be done?

EMR Feb 24th 2019 9:12 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12642736)
So someone buggers off to join a terrorist organization, hates the west, not bothered by heads in dustbins, defends the murder of innocent members of the public and you criticize MY qualities. That's about the funniest thing I've read on here, I mean why on earth would you accept the responsibility to do something that can't be done?

Shall we start a petition to have the killer of Jo Cox stripped of his citizenship, the killers of Steven Lawrence in fact anyone who kills another because if their beliefs.
I will ask you again, we know what she thinks from the interviews , what evidence do you have that she has actually done physical harm, killed anyone.
If beliefs is just enough to make some one stateless I would have a list of those who belong to white right wing racist groups that would fill a cross channel ferry.
But in the UK we do not act like that, we are better than that.

stevenglish1 Feb 24th 2019 9:29 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12642738)
Shall we start a petition to have the killer of Jo Cox stripped of his citizenship, the killers of Steven Lawrence in fact anyone who kills another because if their beliefs.
I will ask you again, we know what she thinks from the interviews , what evidence do you have that she has actually done physical harm, killed anyone.
If beliefs is just enough to make some one stateless I would have a list of those who belong to white right wing racist groups that would fill a cross channel ferry.
But in the UK we do not act like that, we are better than that.

Were Joe Cox and Steven Lawrence murdered in the UK or Syria? What a stupid comparison. And I will answer you one final time, you are the one who wants to bring her back and jail her indefinitely, you must know on what charges else what you're doing is basically taking her hostage, much like Isis;).

Former Lancastrian Feb 24th 2019 10:06 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
The UK won't and can't make her stateless due to the law.
Dependent on UK law as a member of a prescribed organization there will be case law as to what constitutes being a member and to what degree.
There will also be jurisprudence and policy of when the stripping of citizenship can occur and I highly doubt the killers of Jo Cox and Stephen Lawrence had dual citizenship so again the UK under law could not make them stateless.
Yes the UK is better than all that. Its people who don't understand the law and throw out red herrings that need to sit back and understand the UK CANNOT AND WILL NOT make her stateless.
If she does return to the UK the DPP will decide what if any charges will be laid and then go through the UK legal justice system if charges are laid.

EMR Feb 24th 2019 10:30 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12642743)
Were Joe Cox and Steven Lawrence murdered in the UK or Syria? What a stupid comparison. And I will answer you one final time, you are the one who wants to bring her back and jail her indefinitely, you must know on what charges else what you're doing is basically taking her hostage, much like Isis;).

Have you any evidence that she has carried out acts the same as the killers of Jo Cox, and Steven Lawrence.
Are killers in the UK different from killers in Syria if their beliefs are the reasons for their acts ?
I will repeat once again for the hard of understanding, I am happy for the UK courts to judge her, to sentence her if judged guilty to a term consistent with UK law.
We as far as any of us know are not discussing a killer, a torturer, a rapist but someone with beliefs that all of us find despicable.....



BritInParis Feb 24th 2019 10:40 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12642750)
The UK won't and can't make her stateless due to the law.
Dependent on UK law as a member of a prescribed organization there will be case law as to what constitutes being a member and to what degree.
There will also be jurisprudence and policy of when the stripping of citizenship can occur and I highly doubt the killers of Jo Cox and Stephen Lawrence had dual citizenship so again the UK under law could not make them stateless.
Yes the UK is better than all that. Its people who don't understand the law and throw out red herrings that need to sit back and understand the UK CANNOT AND WILL NOT make her stateless.
If she does return to the UK the DPP will decide what if any charges will be laid and then go through the UK legal justice system if charges are laid.

1) She has already been deprived of her British citizenship
2) She isn’t stateless as she is also a Bangladeshi citizen
3) Even if she didn’t have another citizenship to fall back on, the UK can still make her stateless under UK and international law

EMR Feb 24th 2019 10:46 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12642766)
1) She has already been deprived of her British citizenship
2) She isn’t stateless as she is also a Bangladeshi citizen
3) Even if she didn’t have another citizenship to fall back on, the UK can still make her stateless under UK and international law

That is just your opinion, not a fact.
Let the courts decide, .

macliam Feb 24th 2019 10:57 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12642750)
The UK won't and can't make her stateless due to the law.
Dependent on UK law as a member of a prescribed organization there will be case law as to what constitutes being a member and to what degree.
There will also be jurisprudence and policy of when the stripping of citizenship can occur and I highly doubt the killers of Jo Cox and Stephen Lawrence had dual citizenship so again the UK under law could not make them stateless.
Yes the UK is better than all that. Its people who don't understand the law and throw out red herrings that need to sit back and understand the UK CANNOT AND WILL NOT make her stateless.
If she does return to the UK the DPP will decide what if any charges will be laid and then go through the UK legal justice system if charges are laid.

As of this week, Shamima Begum is no longer a British citizen. Therefore the UK has already made her stateless as she currently holds no other citizenship. As Patrick Galey said in Politico "The government argues that because Begum could apply for Bangladeshi citizenship in future, she isn’t technically stateless. This is hard to take seriously. It would be analogous for the government to demolish your house, then deny it had made you homeless because you could theoretically build another." So, the only citizenship that she had was British by birth and the British Government has used Royal Prerogative to strip her of this, without judicial oversight.

What part of the fact that she DOES NOT have dual citizenship is it so hard to understand? At best, she WAS in a position where she could apply for Bangladeshi citizenship until age 21 - but acceptance is NOT automatic, she has NOT applied and the Bangladeshi government has said citizenship will NOT be granted. So Javid has jumped the gun - but will likely sit back and leave her stateless until forced to rescind his order. Until then, she will remain as a stateless person in a refugee camp run by a non-government militia - out of sight, out of mind.

materialcontroller Feb 24th 2019 11:18 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by macliam (Post 12642772)
Until then, she will remain as a stateless person in a refugee camp run by a non-government militia - out of sight, out of mind.

Best place for her imo.

EMR Feb 24th 2019 11:21 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12642781)
Best place for her imo.

Bringing up her British child in an environment that could result in him turning into an Isis killer...

Former Lancastrian Feb 24th 2019 11:25 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12642766)
1) She has already been deprived of her British citizenship
2) She isn’t stateless as she is also a Bangladeshi citizen
3) Even if she didn’t have another citizenship to fall back on, the UK can still make her stateless under UK and international law

I have already addressed points 1 & 2 and I agree with you.
So I guess I have misunderstood point 3

Is this the UK Supreme Court ruling that would refer to point 3

Michaelmas Term [2013] UKSC 62On appeal from: [2012] EWCA Civ 358

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/do...9-judgment.pdf

or was it
Hilary Term [2015] UKSC 19On appeal from: [2013] EWCA Civ 616

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/do...0-judgment.pdf

materialcontroller Feb 24th 2019 11:33 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12642783)
Bringing up her British child in an environment that could result in him turning into an Isis killer...

Or it could end up with them both dead which, while not ideal, would at least solve the problem of what to do with them altogether.

EMR Feb 24th 2019 11:38 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12642792)
Or it could end up with them both dead which, while not ideal, would at least solve the problem of what to do with them altogether.

So her belief rather than actions is enough to wish them dead..
There are tens of millions murdered in the 20th century by those who thought that way...



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