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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

Cape Blue Feb 21st 2019 7:54 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12641221)
This is exactly why we need to uphold the rule of law.

Except when it's a democratic vote, then we can try hedging around the edges using words like "advisory" etc to try and avoid the moral imperative.

stevenglish1 Feb 21st 2019 8:06 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12641186)
Thats the mantra of every dictator r every society that tolerated or committed genocide..
We base our moral compass as being better than not the same as.

The girl is scum, Let her be scum with the people she decided to join. If that leads you to draw comparisons between the average man on the street and those guilty of genocide then I'd be checking for magnets in the vecinity of your moral compass.

EMR Feb 21st 2019 8:20 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12641280)
The girl is scum, Let her be scum with the people she decided to join. If that leads you to draw comparisons between the average man on the street and those guilty of genocide then I'd be checking for magnets in the vecinity of your moral compass.

What sets us apart from the ,like of Isis is law, the rule of law etc. .
You line of thinking is no different from theirs.
The first thing those carrying out genocides do is abandon the rule of law or re write the law to justify their actions...

BEVS Feb 21st 2019 8:23 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
I hope this thread does not become another bickery thread where posters that don't agree with each other simply take cheap pot shots at each other by personal derogatory remarks rather than actually debate or discuss the issue.

I have been reading up on statelessness and terrorist groups.

I found this article which some might like to read.


It remains by no means sure that this female is not entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship be descent. Both her parents are from Bangladesh. That the country does not want her is entirely another matter. Maybe something to do with her known Daesh Isis association and activity for which she sees no wrong.


.
Edit - in fact I may feel the need to cull such bickery posts. Think , discuss, debate.


.

EMR Feb 21st 2019 8:35 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BEVS (Post 12641294)
I hope this thread does not become another bickery thread where posters that don't agree with each other simply take cheap pot shots at each other by personal derogatory remarks rather than actually debate or discuss the issue.

I have been reading up on statelessness and terrorist groups.

I found this article which some might like to read.

It remains by no means sure that this female is not entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship be descent. Both her parents are from Bangladesh. That the country does not want her is entirely another matter. Maybe something to do with her known Daesh Isis association and activity for which she sees no wrong.


.
Edit - in fact I may feel the need to cull such bickery posts. Think , discuss, debate.


.

The UK courts will make the final determination not journalists or even we on this forum....

The rule of law , not mob law.

stevenglish1 Feb 21st 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12641289)
What sets us apart from the ,like of Isis is law, the rule of law etc. .
You line of thinking is no different from theirs.
The first thing those carrying out genocides do is abandon the rule of law or re write the law to justify their actions...

It's worlds apart, I don't behead or blow up those I disagree with for starters. The comparison is a ridiculous one. You mean holding people indefinitely without a trial type re-writes? Can she have your spare room if she comes back?

EMR Feb 21st 2019 8:41 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 (Post 12641310)
It's worlds apart, I don't behead or blow up those I disagree with for starters. The comparison is a ridiculous one. You mean holding people indefinitely without a trial type re-writes? Can she have your spare room if she comes back?

Your last line proves the inadequacy of your argument.
Without laws , fair laws we have no civilisation .
You Don,t have to act like Isis to think like Isis..

Lion in Winter Feb 21st 2019 8:46 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Cape Blue (Post 12641261)
Except when it's a democratic vote, then we can try hedging around the edges using words like "advisory" etc to try and avoid the moral imperative.

What?

What has an advisory (which it was, no hedging) referendum got to do with rule of law? Has the government been acting outside of the law on this issue?

And I have no idea to what moral imperative you are referring.

Lion in Winter Feb 21st 2019 8:47 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12641232)
Some people are totally worthless and the law is wasted on them. A prime example would be that guy Mark Duggan who was shot by the Met Police in 2011 or whenever it was, and ended up being the catalyst for every chav and anti social druggie in the country to go out and riot.

That case should never have had the scrutiny that it got. The bloke was a scumbag. A veritable POS who got exactly what he deserved. End of.


But I don't want individuals deciding who is and is not worthless, thank you very much. Particularly not government functionaries.

stevenglish1 Feb 21st 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12641312)
Your last linevotoves the inadequacy of your argument.
Without laws , fair laws we have no civilisation .
You Don,t have to act like Isis to think like Isis..

Are you Donald Trump?

No, in your reality you're willing to risk the safety of mine and everyone else's children to prove your point. That's not a risk worth taking, if it is then take it with your own family.

spouse of scouse Feb 21st 2019 8:51 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by EMR (Post 12641114)
Welcome to the minority of those of us who believe in a degrees of humanity and reducing the risks to the UK.. .

So unless people agree with your proposed method of protecting the UK from terrorism, then they're either happy with the status quo or are eager to see the UK at greater risk? That's one of the most offensive, disgusting and narcissistic posts I've ever seen on BE, and I've seen a few. :thumbdown:

mmmmbuti Feb 21st 2019 8:52 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BEVS (Post 12640500)
No. She is in the position she is in thanks to her own actions & beliefs . No-one & nothing else. Herself .




No. Keep her away from the UK.

It's not up to you. She was born here and she was educated here. This is the land she belongs to. Not Bangladesh, not the Netherlands where she has never been.
Why should those countries take responsability for her, allowing the UK to wash its hands off?
The British education system (or lack thereof) allowed her to be brainwashed. She was 15 at the time.
The UK is responsible for her and her child. There is no escape from that.

EMR Feb 21st 2019 9:07 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by mmmmbuti (Post 12641321)
It's not up to you. She was born here and she was educated here. This is the land she belongs to. Not Bangladesh, not the Netherlands where she has never been.
Why should those countries take responsability for her, allowing the UK to wash its hands off?
The British education system (or lack thereof) allowed her to be brainwashed. She was 15 at the time.
The UK is responsible for her and her child. There is no escape from that.

Well said , how we deal with her is another matter but she is ours to deal with..

BEVS Feb 21st 2019 9:26 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by mmmmbuti (Post 12641321)
It's not up to you. She was born here and she was educated here. This is the land she belongs to. Not Bangladesh, not the Netherlands where she has never been.
Why should those countries take responsability for her, allowing the UK to wash its hands off?
The British education system (or lack thereof) allowed her to be brainwashed. She was 15 at the time.
The UK is responsible for her and her child. There is no escape from that.

I did not post that this was up to me. I gave my point of view and opinion on this.

This person decided that the UK was not the land she belonged to. In fact she went further and decided that its ideologies , its multi-multiculturalism, its tolerance and understanding was not for her.

Neither you nor I can claim she was brainwashed. She may truly believe the hardline Islam approach to terrorist acts against civilians. In fact she has said as much.

She is an adult. She is responsible for her. Not the country of residence before she decided to opt out. She washed her hands of the UK, not the other way around.
She stole a passport to do so and not even part of her own close family wants her UK return.

The baby is another matter and I do hope that becoming pregnant was not a cynical move to be used as leverage following birth. One would think that pregnancy under some circumstances was to be avoided at all costs.

She is responsible for her situation. That she may have eligibility to citizenship of other countries should be seen as a bonus given she threw away what she already had. Not that any country seems to want her.

materialcontroller Feb 21st 2019 9:34 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12641318)
But I don't want individuals deciding who is and is not worthless, thank you very much. Particularly not government functionaries.

But it's very rarely, if ever, an individual deciding these things. You've focussed on Javid in this case, but although he, or his department, have been the ones to announce the sanctions against this girl; that decision would have involved input from the civil service, the security services, the attorney general, the prime minister's office and possibly a whole lot more besides. As was said much earlier in the thread, it was not an abitrary decision at all. What more safeguards do you need to be satisfied?


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