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-   -   Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked (https://britishexpats.com/forum/take-outside-67/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-922232/)

chawkins99 Feb 19th 2019 6:42 pm

Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked

Apparently, she has (had) dual British and Bangladeshi citizenship.

I wholeheartedly agree with this decision.

materialcontroller Feb 19th 2019 6:49 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
At least the Tories got something right.

Lion in Winter Feb 19th 2019 6:50 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Other than the fact that she was a minor when she left the UK (age 15) which causes me reservations, as long as she is not left stateless it's hard to feel bad about this. I'm not sure that it furthers the cause of reducing recruitment to extremist causes though. Seems to me she has now been made a martyr and much could be made of it in extremist recruitment/grooming circles. I also worry about the child, who is obviously to blame for nothing.

materialcontroller Feb 19th 2019 6:58 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12639694)
Other than the fact that she was a minor when she left the UK (age 15) which causes me reservations, as long as she is not left stateless it's hard to feel bad about this. I'm not sure that it furthers the cause of reducing recruitment to extremist causes though. Seems to me she has now been made a martyr and much could be made of it in extremist recruitment/grooming circles. I also worry about the child, who is obviously to blame for nothing.

She can always fall back on her Bangladeshi nationality.

Seriously, bloody good riddance to her. The UK is finally acting with some balls for a change.

chawkins99 Feb 19th 2019 7:06 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter (Post 12639694)
Other than the fact that she was a minor when she left the UK (age 15) which causes me reservations, as long as she is not left stateless it's hard to feel bad about this. I'm not sure that it furthers the cause of reducing recruitment to extremist causes though. Seems to me she has now been made a martyr and much could be made of it in extremist recruitment/grooming circles. I also worry about the child, who is obviously to blame for nothing.

In a couple of interviews I have seen, she is completely unrepentant. She made a half-hearted apology (when prompted by the interviewer) for incidents such as Manchester Arena but qualified it by saying it was justified retaliation for deaths in Syria. She also said she "wasn't fazed by the sight of severed heads in bins".

I agree with the total innocence of the baby. This is her third child. The previous two both died of disease and malnutrition before they reached 2 years.

Lion in Winter Feb 19th 2019 7:20 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by chawkins99 (Post 12639710)
In a couple of interviews I have seen, she is completely unrepentant. She made a half-hearted apology (when prompted by the interviewer) for incidents such as Manchester Arena but qualified it by saying it was justified retaliation for deaths in Syria. She also said she "wasn't fazed by the sight of severed heads in bins".

I agree with the total innocence of the baby. This is her third child. The previous two both died of disease and malnutrition before they reached 2 years.


Yes, it's not that I think that she is in some way "worthy". She isn't, and is very likely to have been party to some appalling things. She doesn't sound very bright at all, and clearly fell for some garbage at the age of 15 and she doesn't sound as though she's grown up much since then. Since she apparently has another citizenship we don't have to take her, and had she returned she clearly could not have been allowed to simply re-enter society as a free woman, but I do have concerns about a government minister deciding who is and is not worthy of British citizenship with no due process at all. We might agree with him in this instance, but what of others? Removal of full citizenship from groups of people has seldom been used for good. And I can absolutely see this being used as propaganda.

Boiler Feb 19th 2019 9:44 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
There is of course no good ending and there are hundreds now and thousands to come where this solution may not be an option. Well who knows how many, a lot.

There is an appeals process btw and I am sure the usual suspects will not be happy, begs the question what would you need to do to make them happy.

As far as the child is concerned that is an issue for the Bangladeshi authorities now, like any other Bangladeshi child.

BritInParis Feb 19th 2019 9:49 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
If she’s so keen to live in an Islamic state then Bangladesh would seem to be a perfect fit. Interestingly her son is still a British citizen so he can return if he wishes.

BEVS Feb 19th 2019 9:51 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by chawkins99 (Post 12639685)

Apparently, she has (had) dual British and Bangladeshi citizenship.

Yes. She does. Her parents are originally from there. Bangladesh allows for dual citizenship.

Both she and her family will be able to live together in that country.

Giantaxe Feb 19th 2019 9:53 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 12639819)
There is of course no good ending and there are hundreds now and thousands to come where this solution may not be an option. Well who knows how many, a lot.

There is an appeals process btw and I am sure the usual suspects will not be happy, begs the question what would you need to do to make them happy.

As far as the child is concerned that is an issue for the Bangladeshi authorities now, like any other Bangladeshi child.

The child was born before their mother was stripped of British citizenship. I would presume that means they are a British citizen. I'm not convinced this is going to end well for the UK government once this goes down the legal road.

BritInParis Feb 19th 2019 10:05 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 12639827)
The child was born before their mother was stripped of British citizenship. I would presume that means they are a British citizen. I'm not convinced this is going to end well for the UK government once this goes down the legal road.

How so?

Giantaxe Feb 19th 2019 10:49 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by BritInParis (Post 12639837)
How so?

From what I've read she currently holds only a UK passport. She may be entitled to a Bangladeshi passport, but they could decline to issue her with one. She was a minor when she committed the alleged offence for which she is being deprived of her citizenship for. And her British citizen son would effectively be deprived of his right to grow up in the UK with his mother. Plenty of bones there for lawyers to grasp hold of.

BristolUK Feb 19th 2019 10:59 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 
Couple of points. In the first interview - or at least the first report - she said the UK government had no evidence of her having done anything terrorist related. Not "I haven't done anything" but they have no evidence. It maybe nothing but it just seems odd.

There's another similar case in the US of a woman wanting to go home. She actually admits to recruiting efforts and encouraging bloodshed, mowing innocents down etc.
But she actually sounds repentant. :nod:

Shard Feb 19th 2019 11:53 pm

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by materialcontroller (Post 12639693)
At least the Tories got something right.

Yes they did. I have a feeling it is partly a political decision though, they know it will play well to the public, and I think even Javid is looking towards his own ambitions.

BritInParis Feb 20th 2019 12:01 am

Re: Shamima Begum has UK citizenship revoked
 

Originally Posted by Giantaxe (Post 12639858)
From what I've read she currently holds only a UK passport. She may be entitled to a Bangladeshi passport, but they could decline to issue her with one. She was a minor when she committed the alleged offence for which she is being deprived of her citizenship for. And her British citizen son would effectively be deprived of his right to grow up in the UK with his mother. Plenty of bones there for lawyers to grasp hold of.

The Bangladeshi government could do but not having a passport doesn’t not make you a citizen of a country. If they decide to strip her of her Bangladeshi citizenship later on leaving her stateless then that would be their decision. Unlike the UK Bangladesh is not party to the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness.

She was still of the age of criminal responsibility when she left the UK and remains utterly unrepentant now she is an adult.

That her son is a British citizen has no more effect on her ability to live in the UK than it would do for any other non-British citizen parent.

The legislation is pretty clear - I would urge you to read it.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/40


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