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Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Old Mar 19th 2021, 8:59 am
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Default Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Because Sturgeon.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 10:11 am
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Frank Zappa. Also muffins.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 11:32 am
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Originally Posted by malcom1970 View Post
Because Sturgeon.

If you wish us to take your thread seriously, please could you post more than 2 words?
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 12:50 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

I wouldn't quite say it's dead but it's taken a big blow recently.

I imagine it's mainly because there was a floating pool of nominally anti-independence voters who were pissed off at Brexit and BoJo's initial year that they fleeted with supporting independence. But they're returning to the fold.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 1:05 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH View Post
I wouldn't quite say it's dead but it's taken a big blow recently.

I imagine it's mainly because there was a floating pool of nominally anti-independence voters who were pissed off at Brexit and BoJo's initial year that they fleeted with supporting independence. But they're returning to the fold.
I think this is probably accurate. I don’t live in Scotland, but I think if I did, I believe that your narrative would accurately describe the way I feel (or the evolution of my thoughts on the subject over a couple of years.)
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

The concept of scottish independence is aspirational and about as applicable to the average citizen as english independence.
Commission a poll in yorkshire asking whether they'd like to be independent of england and you'd probably get a substantial 'yes' but that doesn't mean they'd support a movement for independence.

When issues like this bubble to the surface it's always useful to identify the chief advocates and ask yourself what they personally expect to gain from leaning on a closed door that they know will stay closed.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 4:32 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Quebec Canada has talked of something like it for years and years, as has the State of Texas.

I think a lot has been going on over the last year or so, Brexit, C-19. Bound to slow down the cause. Not seeing Sturgeon as much of a cause, just more she backed off for other larger issues at hand maybe?

I still can't imagine it, how would the Queen feel, her family being from there and all?
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Mrs Mountbatten is opposed to Scottish independence.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 5:12 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Originally Posted by tumbleweedly View Post
Quebec Canada has talked of something like it for years and years, as has the State of Texas.

I think a lot has been going on over the last year or so, Brexit, C-19. Bound to slow down the cause. Not seeing Sturgeon as much of a cause, just more she backed off for other larger issues at hand maybe?

I still can't imagine it, how would the Queen feel, her family being from there and all?
Her mother’s family were Scottish, but on dad’s side, I believe you’d have to go back four hundred years or so to find a Scottish ancestor.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 5:14 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

It's a bit of a double standard, really.

Every day, Boris is accused of dubious things he actually does, and few have any problem with it.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 7:44 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
It's a bit of a double standard, really.
Every day, Boris is accused of dubious things he actually does, and few have any problem with it.
Oh I think many have problems with what Johnson does.
The problem the UK has that produces that itch that you can't just reach to scratch is that the UK has this annoying thing called democracy.
Until the many become the very many then that itch, well you'll just have to keep on annoying the rest of us with it.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 9:24 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Oh I think many have problems with what Johnson does.
The problem the UK has that produces that itch that you can't just reach to scratch is that the UK has this annoying thing called democracy.
Until the many become the very many then that itch, well you'll just have to keep on annoying the rest of us with it.
Probably not actually to do with that "annoying thing called demoracy" per se and more to do with the peculiar (and intended) way it manifests itself in the UK.

Even now, moves are afoot to consolidate the Conservatives' grip on power anew, despite the fact that they already have everything run to their advantage.

As you claim not to be a Tory, I'm surprised you're content with that.

Hey ho, though. They've "done Brexit" so all tickety boo with you, I guess, despite the fact thet they've done no such thing and are desperately scrabbling to either deny any damage or foist it upon someone else.
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Old Mar 19th 2021, 11:01 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Probably not actually to do with that "annoying thing called demoracy" per se and more to do with the peculiar (and intended) way it manifests itself in the UK.
Even now, moves are afoot to consolidate the Conservatives' grip on power anew, despite the fact that they already have everything run to their advantage.
As you claim not to be a Tory, I'm surprised you're content with that.
Hey ho, though. They've "done Brexit" so all tickety boo with you, I guess, despite the fact thet they've done no such thing and are desperately scrabbling to either deny any damage or foist it upon someone else.
Ahhh... a bone to pick at...

You are of course correct in insinuating the FPTP has little to do with democracy where it can be defined as the will of the majority... but it's an electoral system that hasn't ruffled enough feathers to gather enough support to want the system changed, so I'd argue that the FPTP system has the will of the majority by default.

The problem with assertions like "moves are afoot to consolidate the Conservatives' grip on power anew" only work when they work. What I mean by this is that the electorate can be fickle, for evidence I point to the labour seats that fell to the tories at the last election, and I fully expect them to revert to type at the next, but I'd like to hear of these moves.

As for not being a tory, I have voted for all three major parties while I lived in the UK, although not at the same time. I do favour socialist policies, and would vote for any party that offered attractive policies. You'll note that I would have voted for brexit and I still think it would have been the right thing to have done despite the current issues with trade.

This thread concerns scottish independence and the comparison with brexit will be obvious to all and no doubt to some scots it's encouraged their need to test the populous. I'm of the opinion that it would fail again... but as I've said above, voters can be fickle.


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Old Mar 20th 2021, 6:37 am
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Scottish independence is a very sticky pot of porridge, particularly because of that border.

Independence would be a hell of a lot easier for northern Ireland. All they need to do is vote for it, and presto! Aside from eliminating all these border problems with one quick solution, they wouldn't be damaged much, and more likely, experience immediate benefits.

The Scots, on the other hand, are the country that really wants and arguably, needs independence from English rule. But for them, and like Brexit, it too would be a pretty painful act of self harm. At least until it solved the border issue and became an EU member state again. And that would take many years.
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Old Mar 20th 2021, 9:07 pm
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Default Re: Scottish Independence R.I.P. 2021

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post

The Scots, on the other hand, are the country that really wants and arguably, needs independence from English rule. But for them, and like Brexit, it too would be a pretty painful act of self harm. At least until it solved the border issue and became an EU member state again. And that would take many years.
The idiocy of Brexit demonstrates that the public may well vote with their head rather than their heart. Having said that, the pandemic, Brexit fallout in the UK the SNP troubles, general high uncertainty makes it seem unlikely that there would be sufficient numbers to take a bold step.
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