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Religion to update?

Religion to update?

Old Mar 23rd 2005, 4:42 pm
  #1  
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Default Religion to update?

" The Scottish Episcopal church has declared that being gay is no bar to becoming a priest.

The view differs from the Anglican Communion in other parts of the world, which is in turmoil over the consecration of gay US bishop Gene Robinson...."

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...315166,00.html

Not being religious here, I personally don't see the problem with the church updating its practices, but what do you guys think about religious reform in general?
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 4:45 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Bob
" The Scottish Episcopal church has declared that being gay is no bar to becoming a priest.

The view differs from the Anglican Communion in other parts of the world, which is in turmoil over the consecration of gay US bishop Gene Robinson...."

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...315166,00.html

Not being religious here, I personally don't see the problem with the church updating its practices, but what do you guys think about religious reform in general?
What's the hullabaloo?

Why would any gay person wanna be a priest of a church that forbids it.

go start up your own church or be a priest of one that does allow it.
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 5:05 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Manc
What's the hullabaloo?

Why would any gay person wanna be a priest of a church that forbids it.

go start up your own church or be a priest of one that does allow it.
just don't call yourself a Christian ...
 
Old Mar 23rd 2005, 5:40 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Manc
Why would any gay person wanna be a priest of a church that forbids it.

go start up your own church or be a priest of one that does allow it.
not that there ain't enough different types of churches already in the states...i can't keep up with 'em all...
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Brit'n'TX
just don't call yourself a Christian ...
Here we go again. Gays are not welcome in Brit's understanding of what Christianity is all about.

I thought Christians welcomed & understood diversity?

I thought being gay is usually in the DNA or the environment and intelligent people accept that and don't see it as a fault?
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 7:20 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Don
Here we go again. Gays are not welcome in Brit's understanding of what Christianity is all about.

I thought Christians welcomed & understood diversity?

I thought being gay is usually in the DNA or the environment and intelligent people accept that and don't see it as a fault?
as I said yesterday, you don't have a clue what Christianity is about ... read a few books (the bible might be a good start) and then come back when you know what you're talking about ..
 
Old Mar 23rd 2005, 7:26 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Brit'n'TX
as I said yesterday, you don't have a clue what Christianity is about ... read a few books (the bible might be a good start) and then come back when you know what you're talking about ..
That seems to say that you think Christianity cannot live alongside gay people or give them equal worth as given to straight people?

Somehow gays are not as good or pure or worthy or blessed or Christian as straight Christians?

Is that what you think?
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 7:33 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Don
That seems to say that you think Christianity cannot live alongside gay people or give them equal worth as given to straight people?

Somehow gays are not as good or pure or worthy or blessed or Christian as straight Christians?

Is that what you think?
Don, you silly old sot, you're not going to provoke me into an argument - you're just not worth the time nor the effort ... even if you did understand, you'd say you didn't, just to be cantankerous ...

now ... in simple terms even you can grasp - Christianity is the belief and following of Jesus Christ's teachings (with me so far? get the link between CHRIST and CHRISTIANITY?) ... Christ taught that homosexuality was wrong and against God's law ... ergo, if you are "gay" or believe that it is acceptable, you go against Christ's teachings and therefore cannot be a Christian ...

it has nothing to do with how "good" they are - if you, as you no doubt will, choose to see it in that blinkered way, fine ...
 
Old Mar 23rd 2005, 7:40 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Brit'n'TX
Don, you silly old sot, you're not going to provoke me into an argument - you're just not worth the time nor the effort ... even if you did understand, you'd say you didn't, just to be cantankerous ...

now ... in simple terms even you can grasp - Christianity is the belief and following of Jesus Christ's teachings (with me so far? get the link between CHRIST and CHRISTIANITY?) ... Christ taught that homosexuality was wrong and against God's law ... ergo, if you are "gay" or believe that it is acceptable, you go against Christ's teachings and therefore cannot be a Christian ...

it has nothing to do with how "good" they are - if you, as you no doubt will, choose to see it in that blinkered way, fine ...
At least we know what you think.

FWIW I think gays, men or women, are just as 'good' in a Christian or any other sense as straights.

Sexuality doesn't come into human worth or character, for me.

You must belong to a very conservative bit of the faith?
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Brit'n'TX
now ... in simple terms even you can grasp - Christianity is the belief and following of Jesus Christ's teachings (with me so far? get the link between CHRIST and CHRISTIANITY?) ... Christ taught that homosexuality was wrong and against God's law ... ergo, if you are "gay" or believe that it is acceptable, you go against Christ's teachings and therefore cannot be a Christian ...
I'm sure it's been posted before, but here we go:

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 8:04 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Don

You must belong to a very conservative bit of the faith?
there are so many different strings and varieties of church here in the states though...
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Brit'n'TX
you go against Christ's teachings and therefore cannot be a Christian ...

it has nothing to do with how "good" they are - if you, as you no doubt will, choose to see it in that blinkered way, fine ...
Hi Brit,
No human being is perfect---we all "go against Christ's teachings" in the form of sin every single day. Going against Christ's teachings (sinning) does not mean that you can't be a Christian. It simply means that you're expressing your humanity rather than your divinity.

And you're right---it doesn't have anything to do with how "good" they are. In my belief, what it *does* have to do with is the amazing power of God's grace to accept, love unconditionally, and envelop human beings in his perfection, no matter how human they are.

The Christian church has evolved over centuries---perhaps you believe that women should not hold any sort of official role, but that clearly is changing around the world in most denominations. This doesn't mean that those people are going against the bible---it simply means that religion is, like it or not, influenced by the culture, and interpreted to suit the time period of the interpreter.

In a few centuries, Christians will probably be wondering what all the fuss was about with homosexuality, just like we wonder that with the role of women in the Church today.

~SecretGarden
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Old Mar 23rd 2005, 8:35 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Don
At least we know what you think.

FWIW I think gays, men or women, are just as 'good' in a Christian or any other sense as straights.

Sexuality doesn't come into human worth or character, for me.

You must belong to a very conservative bit of the faith?
go away Don - come back when you're sober and less aggressive and I might have time for you ...
 
Old Mar 23rd 2005, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by SecretGarden
Hi Brit,
No human being is perfect---we all "go against Christ's teachings" in the form of sin every single day. Going against Christ's teachings (sinning) does not mean that you can't be a Christian. It simply means that you're expressing your humanity rather than your divinity.

And you're right---it doesn't have anything to do with how "good" they are. In my belief, what it *does* have to do with is the amazing power of God's grace to accept, love unconditionally, and envelop human beings in his perfection, no matter how human they are.

The Christian church has evolved over centuries---perhaps you believe that women should not hold any sort of official role, but that clearly is changing around the world in most denominations. This doesn't mean that those people are going against the bible---it simply means that religion is, like it or not, influenced by the culture, and interpreted to suit the time period of the interpreter.

In a few centuries, Christians will probably be wondering what all the fuss was about with homosexuality, just like we wonder that with the role of women in the Church today.

~SecretGarden
the reason I don't tend to get involved in this kind of debate is because I get fed up with having to defend my beliefs - my faith is MY faith ... how I "interpret" the bible and its teachings is MY business ...

yes, we all sin ... of course we do - we are human ... the point is, do you repent those sins? you have to admit it's a sin in the first place - if you disagree with what Christ said is a sin, how can you call yourself a Christian? we aren't the ones that make the rules - we don't get to choose what is a sin and which laws to abide by ...

now, that is my position - it won't change because Don rubbishes it, or you try to make the peace ... end of story ...

I shall now remove myself from this "debate"
 
Old Mar 23rd 2005, 8:46 pm
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Default Re: Religion to update?

Originally Posted by Brit'n'TX
I shall now remove myself from this "debate"
The "Dr Laura" letter always does it -- keep it in your arsenal!
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