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"Red Tape" saves lives

"Red Tape" saves lives

Old Jan 20th 2020, 6:10 pm
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Default "Red Tape" saves lives

When I first moved to Canada it struck me there were news reports of some on the job accidents that I never came across in the UK. Coupled with my own observation of things like a lack of scaffolding on some buildings when I'd expect to see it in the UK I wondered what the industrial injury rate was.

I couldn't really find reliable rates but it did seem that Canada had twice as many deaths on the job as the UK but with half the population.

Today's paper has a US/UK comparison and it seems to match what I found.

3.5 deaths for every 100,000 workers compared to less than 1 for every 100,000 workers in the UK.

I can't help feeling that what some consider red tape is actually a life saver and that those who ridicule H&S should pay attention to things like this.

I forgot the link https://www.theguardian.com/business...deaths-falling

Last edited by BristolUK; Jan 20th 2020 at 6:41 pm. Reason: link added
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 6:17 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

BUK - you are spot on, by quoting the example of the building industry. Unfortunately H & S in the UK has gone way beyond the original serious offenders (building, farming, mining, heavy engineering, etc) and, just occasionally, has reached silly proportions. IMO.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 6:39 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
When I first moved to Canada it struck me there were news reports of some on the job accidents that I never came across in the UK. Coupled with my own observation of things like a lack of scaffolding on some buildings when I'd expect to see it in the UK I wondered what the industrial injury rate was.

I couldn't really find reliable rates but it did seem that Canada had twice as many deaths on the job as the UK but with half the population.

Today's paper has a US/UK comparison and it seems to match what I found.

3.5 deaths for every 100,000 workers compared to less than 1 for every 100,000 workers in the UK.

I can't help feeling that what some consider red tape is actually a life saver and that those who ridicule H&S should pay attention to things like this.
yeah but...
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:10 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

The rules exist, companies, employees and government just don't care unless something happens.

US and Canada tend to be reactionary only doing anything once something happens and even then the fines can be idiotically low and a drop in the bucket for a large company.

500,000 fine to a company with billions in revenue is not a penalty, maybe if the fine was 25% of revenue companies would listen.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:19 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
yeah but...
Canada's still stuck in the 70's They don't even have security screens in front of the bank tellers yet........
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:21 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Canada's still stuck in the 70's They don't even have security screens in front of the bank tellers yet........
Errr Dave, we don't have them in the UK either.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:23 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

It’s not usually the H&S regulations themselves but the poor interpretation by those who apply them.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Canada's still stuck in the 70's They don't even have security screens in front of the bank tellers yet........
Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Errr Dave, we don't have them in the UK either.
Since when?
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:28 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Errr Dave, we don't have them in the UK either.
Some branches do, some don't. It's not even consistent in different branches of the same bank chain.

A local branch of Lloyds had a refit, and they tookout all the counters with screens.. Another's refit kept the screens.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:31 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Since when?
Several years. Most banks are like open plan offices now. Something to do with appearing friendlier and more approachable.

Post Offices, at least major ones, still have screens; though they aren't the full plate glass jobs of yesteryear.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:33 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Several years. Most banks are like open plan offices now. Something to do with appearing friendlier and more approachable.

Post Offices, at least major ones, still have screens; though they aren't the full plate glass jobs of yesteryear.
The financial advisors may be out in the open but not the cashiers.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:34 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Several years. Most banks are like open plan offices now. Something to do with appearing friendlier and more approachable..
After I left then. I wonder if there's a connection

It was only Building Societies in my time.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:36 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
The financial advisors may be out in the open but not the cashiers.
They are in my local Barclays and NatWest branches. Yes, there'll be a floorwalker who will try to steer you towards an ATM if you want to deposit funds, but if you insist on seeing a real person then they'll deal with you at a podium and take your cash there.
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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:45 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Since when?
Banks were removing them 20 years ago, before I left the UK. Now some banks have them, and some don't.
Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
.... It was only Building Societies in my time.
I think demutualization impacted the banking market, especially where a building society like Halifax merged with a bank, as Halifax merged with the Bank of Scotland.

FWIW I don't think I have seen a screen at a bank in the US, where the risk of being shot is obviously much higher than in the UK, at least not since I left NY, but I am not sure if that is an NC thing, a small town thing, or just the practice at the banks I frequent.

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Old Jan 20th 2020, 7:59 pm
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Default Re: "Red Tape" saves lives

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Canada's still stuck in the 70's They don't even have security screens in front of the bank tellers yet........
The cash advance places do though..... But then they keep large sums of cash on premises, banks seem to have largely gone to mini vaults next to the tellers that wont release much cash unless the teller is doing a transactions, bank robbery in general seems less common at least in my area.

Can always tell how poor a neighborhood is by how many cash advance places you see.

Yes Canada is in many ways slow at adopting new things, I remember when our bank advertised they were going envelope free ATM back around 2012, I was thinking my US bank did that like 2005 and by 2010 the ATM was also counting and verifying cash where in Canada, the bank still to this day holds cash until human verification.

Of course I was also able to get a Visa debit card connected to my chequing account in the US back in 1998, where I still can't do that with my bank in 2020 in Canada, although some banks finally offer one.

The workers at the local disability office sit behind thick glass screens, but then they are located in the poorest area of Canada with high drug addiction rate so can't blame them really.

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