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Prince Andrew

Prince Andrew

Old Jan 19th 2022, 11:10 pm
  #151  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Watching last night’s ITV program…Ghislaine, Prince Andrew and The Pedeophile.

See nothing, say nothing, say nothing, OMG!!!

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Jan 19th 2022 at 11:14 pm.
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Old Jan 19th 2022, 11:22 pm
  #152  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Watching last night’s ITV program…Ghislaine, Prince Andrew and The Pedeophile.

See nothing, say nothing, say nothing, OMG!!!
You seem surprised?

If you're part of the Establishment like Andrew and Jimmy Saville back in the day, you're protected.

If you're not, you're not protected (as Rolf Harris found) or publicly humiliated (like Cliff Richard's arrest being leaked to the media before it happened).

There are cliques everywhere. Either one is in, or one is out.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 7:51 am
  #153  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

I think the fact that Virginia Roberts/Guiffre is still alive to tell her story is all the proof you need that Andrew is as thick as mince and can't see beyond the end of his nose/other appendage. If he had any nous whatsoever he'd have arranged for this problem to be quietly and permanently 'resolved' years ago.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 8:34 am
  #154  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
-
Well - I saw the post before you deleted it after the usual time slot . You agreed about cliques and being in or out depending on power pull.

Whose or what shoes JG ? You wrote that you understood the shoes they walked in. Whose shoes do you understand and why?

.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 9:16 am
  #155  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Well - I saw the post before you deleted it after the usual time slot . You agreed about cliques and being in or out depending on power pull.

Whose or what shoes JG ? You wrote that you understood the shoes they walked in. Whose shoes do you understand and why?

.
Had I wanted to discuss it I would not have deleted my post. It was something that happened to a close friend.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 10:21 am
  #156  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

I'm becoming uncomfortable at some of the messaging in this case, because I'm sure there are a lot of men who hope that things they did many years ago never come to light..... and a fair few women too. Whilst I recognize the type of entitled pr*ck that Shitehawk represents - and am pleased to see him get his comeuppance - I think he is probably guilty of exploiting someone weaker and turning a blind-eye to evil, rather than being involved directly in the procurement and trafficking of a "minor" himself.

If he even knew Giuffre's age at the time, 16 was the age of consent in the UK - and the dangers of "jailbait" was something most guys were aware about, so a girl of 17 would have been considered "fair game", unless she was obviously being controlled or forced to do something against her will. That's the way things were - and looking back at yesterday through today's glasses doesn't help.... attitudes have changed.

So, I'm happy to see his arrogance punished and I hope his legal tricks come to nothing - but whether he can be classified as a sex offender is far more diifficult. I certainly don't think he can be spoken of in the same terms as Savile or Epstein.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 2:16 pm
  #157  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I'm becoming uncomfortable at some of the messaging in this case, because I'm sure there are a lot of men who hope that things they did many years ago never come to light..... and a fair few women too. Whilst I recognize the type of entitled pr*ck that Shitehawk represents - and am pleased to see him get his comeuppance - I think he is probably guilty of exploiting someone weaker and turning a blind-eye to evil, rather than being involved directly in the procurement and trafficking of a "minor" himself.

If he even knew Giuffre's age at the time, 16 was the age of consent in the UK - and the dangers of "jailbait" was something most guys were aware about, so a girl of 17 would have been considered "fair game", unless she was obviously being controlled or forced to do something against her will. That's the way things were - and looking back at yesterday through today's glasses doesn't help.... attitudes have changed.

So, I'm happy to see his arrogance punished and I hope his legal tricks come to nothing - but whether he can be classified as a sex offender is far more diifficult. I certainly don't think he can be spoken of in the same terms as Savile or Epstein.
Doesn't really matter what age she was, 17 or 15, if she didn't willingly consent to the act, he's a rapist.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 3:41 pm
  #158  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Doesn't really matter what age she was, 17 or 15, if she didn't willingly consent to the act, he's a rapist.
I think you mean that if he knew she didn't consent he would be a rapist......but that's the problem. If she was obviously forced to do something against her will, then there is no question that he should have realised - but I doubt that he would ask her and he might even have thought that she was happy to be in his company, because he was (and is) detached from normal life. But I don't know. I'm trying to put aside my own prejudice against him.

There is a presumption that Giuffre didn't consent, because she had been "trafficked" and was "underage", but again, that's something a trial must weigh up. From the outside it is difficult to put yourself in the mind of anyone, let alone when the event was decades ago. Looking back and judging by today's standards is dangerous when it comes down to a he said/she said situation. It's difficult - which is why this is a civil and not a criminal case.....
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 3:46 pm
  #159  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I think you mean that if he knew she didn't consent he would be a rapist......but that's the problem. If she was obviously forced to do something against her will, then there is no question that he should have realised - but I doubt that he would ask her and he might even have thought that she was happy to be in his company, because he was (and is) detached from normal life. But I don't know. I'm trying to put aside my own prejudice against him.

There is a presumption that Giuffre didn't consent, because she had been "trafficked" and was "underage", but again, that's something a trial must weigh up. From the outside it is difficult to put yourself in the mind of anyone, let alone when the event was decades ago. Looking back and judging by today's standards is dangerous when it comes down to a he said/she said situation. It's difficult - which is why this is a civil and not a criminal case.....
I love you dearly, but there is no way in hell I'm ever going to get into a situation where I play devil's advocate for a member of a family who should all consider themselves lucky to still have their heads.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 3:47 pm
  #160  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I'm becoming uncomfortable at some of the messaging in this case, because I'm sure there are a lot of men who hope that things they did many years ago never come to light..... and a fair few women too. Whilst I recognize the type of entitled pr*ck that Shitehawk represents - and am pleased to see him get his comeuppance - I think he is probably guilty of exploiting someone weaker and turning a blind-eye to evil, rather than being involved directly in the procurement and trafficking of a "minor" himself.

If he even knew Giuffre's age at the time, 16 was the age of consent in the UK - and the dangers of "jailbait" was something most guys were aware about, so a girl of 17 would have been considered "fair game", unless she was obviously being controlled or forced to do something against her will. That's the way things were - and looking back at yesterday through today's glasses doesn't help.... attitudes have changed.

So, I'm happy to see his arrogance punished and I hope his legal tricks come to nothing - but whether he can be classified as a sex offender is far more diifficult. I certainly don't think he can be spoken of in the same terms as Savile or Epstein.
I agree. The Dukes big mistake was to maintain a long friendship with Epstein and to keep going with it after he had served a prison sentence.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 6:09 pm
  #161  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

If the legal age of consent is 18 then Giuffre, by defintion, was unable to provide consent.
This question is one answered by society and the laws it makes.
Andrew was an older, and it is presumed responsible, adult and should have known enough to ask the question.
He should have done this because the circumstances demanded it and not to have done so invites tha accusation of exploitation.
I refuse to believe that an Epstein and Maxwell association wasn't the centre of rumour and word of mouth for those 'in the know'.
People like Epstein and Maxwell will have provided access to girls like Ms Giuffre to men other than simply Andrew and for other reasons than to be good friends.
Andrew provided access to a closed society composed of people with HRH before their names, no wonder they no doubt privately wish, like Epstien, he'd do the decent thing or like Epstein find someone to do it for him.


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Old Jan 20th 2022, 6:11 pm
  #162  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
If the legal age of consent is 18 then .
It was 16, and probably important in his defense.
but everything else, I agree with you on.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 6:12 pm
  #163  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
I love you dearly, but there is no way in hell I'm ever going to get into a situation where I play devil's advocate for a member of a family who should all consider themselves lucky to still have their heads.
Jeez, I bet you're popular back home!! Don't get me wrong, I've no time for the monarchy as a system.... but then, I've no time for the executive powers of the US presidency either. On a personal basis, I hate the kind of entitlement that Shitehawk displays - and although he has been educated that way, I also think that he exploits it. So I'd be happy to see him brought to ground, but no more than I would others of his ilk. I certainly think he deserves what he might deny others - a fair crack - but when he uses privilege to escape the sanctions caused through privilege, I'll happily see him kneecapped.
Originally Posted by philat98 View Post
I agree. The Dukes big mistake was to maintain a long friendship with Epstein and to keep going with it after he had served a prison sentence.
Is this like "what did the Romans ever do for us"?? - AMONGST his big mistakes was to maintain........
I'm happy to believe that Shitehawk is so detached from reality that he didn't see the issue in his relationship with Epstein, but the dark side of me wonders why Epstein deserved a second thought from his scumship. Obviously there was something to his advantage in maintaining contact..... maybe we'll find out what that was.
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Old Jan 20th 2022, 6:28 pm
  #164  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
If the legal age of consent is 18 then Giuffre, by defintion, was unable to provide consent.
See #156. The "offence" took place in the UK, therefore UK law pertains..... the age of consent is 16, just like it is in many US states.

I think you need to ensure you are not building assumptions on presumption..... it would seem likely that Epstein wanted something in return for his largesse, but Shitehawk may be too entitled to understand this. Equally, the continuing "friendship" might well be because Epstein has information that his "friends" would prefer he kept secret. We may find this out, we may not......

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Old Jan 20th 2022, 7:52 pm
  #165  
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Default Re: Prince Andrew

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Jeez, I bet you're popular back home!! Don't get me wrong, I've no time for the monarchy as a system.... but then, I've no time for the executive powers of the US presidency either. On a personal basis, I hate the kind of entitlement that Shitehawk displays - and although he has been educated that way, I also think that he exploits it. So I'd be happy to see him brought to ground, but no more than I would others of his ilk. I certainly think he deserves what he might deny others - a fair crack - but when he uses privilege to escape the sanctions caused through privilege, I'll happily see him kneecapped.
Is this like "what did the Romans ever do for us"?? - AMONGST his big mistakes was to maintain........
I'm happy to believe that Shitehawk is so detached from reality that he didn't see the issue in his relationship with Epstein, but the dark side of me wonders why Epstein deserved a second thought from his scumship. Obviously there was something to his advantage in maintaining contact..... maybe we'll find out what that was.
I'm not popular anywhere, but that's largely by design.

I also have no respect for any power structures, be they elected or otherwise. But the implied power of these rich inbreds because of accidents of birth is just that bit more repugnant.
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