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Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Old Dec 3rd 2019, 7:48 pm
  #751  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
More 'Red Herring'. A referendum was held. The majority voted to leave. Both parties said they would respect the referendum i.e. the majority of M.Ps; Three years later we are still nowhere they backtracked. You want to remain, I want to leave. The vote was to leave but Parliament didn't keep to it's word. We are not going to agree and we can pick at it as much as we like. One of us will be disappointed after the 12th. What ever the outcome I'm totally against a 2nd referendum as we would be in the same position with people whinging for a third one!!
As others have said, we're not 'nowhere. Where we are is not where most Remainers would like to be, nor where many Leavers expected us to be, but then ask the old Cornishman who was asked for directions says, "If I were you, I wouldn't start from here"....

But that's entirely down to a misunderstanding of the EU's decision-making processes and rules, which are structured. It's also down to a failure to accept that the EU is unwilling to give a departing member what it wants outside those rules when the ruling political party and it's leaders (and elected UKIP MEPs) have shown they've been willing to lie, cheat (and commit fraud in the case of Farage's MEP expenses) to acheive their political ends.

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
I wondered if someone would eventually ask. As for being 'tangible' that would depend on whether you agree with me or not doesn't it? If you don't agree then you'e not going to agree it is tangible. My reason for wanting to exit the E.U. is very simple. I want my country to be independent. Nothing complicated in that.
Independence? It's tangible, but the UK has always been independent, unlike Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. Yet when these countries bring up independence, they're laughed at by many.

The UK is an active member of the EU Council of Ministers, and the European Parliament, and laws passed by these will have been agreed to by a majority of member states, unlike the UK where English MPs outnumber the the number of Welsh, Scottish and NI MPs.

I believe that Britain makes it's own rules and laws. In support of that I would say, old fashioned and unwelcome as it is today, that nearly 60 million people died for that right.
The UK makes it's own laws already, always has done, always will. So do the other EU member states make their own. What you're probably referring to to is that a law passed in the EU Council of Ministers and the European Parliament has to be applied in all member states, but the UK Civil Service takes those laws, drafts them for consideration for the UK Parliament, and the latter debates and decides whether to pass those into UK law. If they're not passed, amendments are made to the proposal and it's debated again. Which is how all laws are made in the UK.

And 60 million died because some asshole Prussian Corporal decided to go into politics, encouraged others to believe that their problems were caused by a certain ethnic group, then decided his brand of politics should be forced on everyone else. Many of those 60 million died because they disagreed with the Corporal, others because of their ethnicity, some more died because they lived around the areas of fighting/bombing, and many more died because they were conscripted to fight. We did the right things for the right reasons, but one of those reasons was to keep our independence, not to regain something we'd never lost.

It doesn't mean I want Britain isolated in anyway, before we joined we weren't so I don't see why, after we leave, it should be different. If forces outside of our control try to make it hard then it would have to be dealt with in some way but why should they? People have their own opinion regarding staying or leaving. I have no problem whatsoever with someone wanting to remain. I just don't agree with that view.
But the UK will become more isolated.

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
I can think of other words apart from naive.

This is the crux of the matter. They (leavers) didn't think it through at all. In spite of us (remainers) telling them that Leave was undefined - from BRINO to No Deal and everything in between - they just saw it as a two part binary issue - Leave or Remain. They even to this day use such trite and facile slogans as 'Leave means Leave' and 'Brexit means Brexit' like there's no more to it than that.
Even key Leaver like Farage said that the 'Norway option' would be an option post-Brexit.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
There are no more toys left to throw or dummies left to spit out after you, Shard and DaveLovesDee got in first and beat everyone to it 3 years ago.
Really! Where did I throw my toys or spit dummies?

Last edited by DaveLovesDee; Dec 3rd 2019 at 8:35 pm.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 8:11 pm
  #752  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Just hold on a second there Shard. Corbyn had spent two years goading for an election, and in typical weak fashion, spent most of that time running scared from it until tough questions began to be asked and he finally relented. Boris may shoulder the greater responsibility, but this election isn't solely about his "fast and loose" approach. It has everyone's grubby fingerprints all over it.
He wanted an election at a time to suit Labour, and I think he's played a blinder doing it the way he wanted. He waited till Johnson had negotiated a deal, which he said was wonderful, but was only a rehash of May's, he then said he had agreed a border which wouldn't be on land in Ireland, having said, on record, that there would be no border in the Irish sea, then announces just that, he has given the Tories enough rope to hang himself, and from the way the Tory dominated polls are moving he is highly likely to get a majority, probably an overall one. Johnson and the rest of the cabinet, which are mainly rejects from the May cabinet, Johnson was sacked from it, Patel was sacked from it, a couple of others were sacked by Johnson, and many have also decided not to stand for MPs again. A poll in central London, by the Tory supporting and Tory owned YouGov gives Labour a 17point lead. OK that's a solid Labour area, but in others the Tory lead is down to low single figures, which means, at least, no overall winner. There is a very strong belief that Johnson will lose his seat along with people like IDS. Swinson appears to be almost certain to lose hers in Scotland.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 8:19 pm
  #753  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
He wanted an election at a time to suit Labour, and I think he's played a blinder doing it the way he wanted. He waited till Johnson had negotiated a deal, which he said was wonderful, but was only a rehash of May's, he then said he had agreed a border which wouldn't be on land in Ireland, having said, on record, that there would be no border in the Irish sea, then announces just that, he has given the Tories enough rope to hang himself, and from the way the Tory dominated polls are moving he is highly likely to get a majority, probably an overall one. Johnson and the rest of the cabinet, which are mainly rejects from the May cabinet, Johnson was sacked from it, Patel was sacked from it, a couple of others were sacked by Johnson, and many have also decided not to stand for MPs again. A poll in central London, by the Tory supporting and Tory owned YouGov gives Labour a 17point lead. OK that's a solid Labour area, but in others the Tory lead is down to low single figures, which means, at least, no overall winner. There is a very strong belief that Johnson will lose his seat along with people like IDS. Swinson appears to be almost certain to lose hers in Scotland.
Well let's hope him and his regressive Soviet era policies never get a look in. And I say that as a long time (former) Labour party member.

Take rent controls for example. Now why would I vote for something like that, when it's not going to help me, and is in fact likely to cost me money?

Last edited by materialcontroller; Dec 3rd 2019 at 8:21 pm.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 8:28 pm
  #754  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Just hold on a second there Shard. Corbyn had spent two years goading for an election, and in typical weak fashion, spent most of that time running scared from it until tough questions began to be asked and he finally relented. Boris may shoulder the greater responsibility, but this election isn't solely about his "fast and loose" approach. It has everyone's grubby fingerprints all over it.
The high drama around the election was because we had a PM who could not be trusted. Even May breached trust by pulling votes at the last minute. Granted that remain MP's have been trying to slow down or reverse the Brexit decision, but they have been up front about it. Last year we even had Rees-Mogg trying to eject May because she wasn't playing by his fanatical ball. I think the grubbiness award goes solely to the Tories.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 8:29 pm
  #755  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Well let's hope him and his regressive Soviet era policies never get a look in. And I say that as a long time (former) Labour party member.

Take rent controls for example. Now why would I vote for something like that, when it's not going to help me, and is in fact likely to cost me money?
Perhaps Corbyn should nationalise housing and then give it out for free?
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 8:31 pm
  #756  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Well let's hope him and his regressive Soviet era policies never get a look in. And I say that as a long time (former) Labour party member.
Can you explain which part of the policies and manifesto are representative of the Soviet era please?

Take rent controls for example. Now why would I vote for something like that, when it's not going to help me, and is in fact likely to cost me money?
If you are a fair landlord then what is to be concerned about. In times when purchasing a property has become very difficult , you want a rental market that allows people to rent for a fair rent and the accommodation to be of a set standard. Times are shifting away from the very few decades of everyone owning their own homes so the need for good and fair rental stock should be raised and addressed.
For a happier , more invigorated nation , the country should be looking away from the failed me first attitude and start investing in the good for everyone.

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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 9:07 pm
  #757  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Can you explain which part of the policies and manifesto are representative of the Soviet era please?



If you are a fair landlord then what is to be concerned about. In times when purchasing a property has become very difficult , you want a rental market that allows people to rent for a fair rent and the accommodation to be of a set standard. Times are shifting away from the very few decades of everyone owning their own homes so the need for good and fair rental stock should be raised and addressed.
For a happier , more invigorated nation , the country should be looking away from the failed me first attitude and start investing in the good for everyone.
The "fair rent" is that one agreed between the buyer and the seller, not some government body. There is no monopoly position that requires intervention, if the landlord sets their rent too high they get no tenants and expensive voids.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 9:15 pm
  #758  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The "fair rent" is that one agreed between the buyer and the seller, not some government body. There is no monopoly position that requires intervention, if the landlord sets their rent too high they get no tenants and expensive voids.
I think you mean the landlord and the tenant?

That rather depends on the rental property and the ilk of the landlord. What they are looking to achieve. If they are fair or exploitative. It also depends on there being enough rental stock for the demand.
That there is even talk of regulating or capping rents states that there is and has been an issue. The best rental stock really would be that which is managed and regulated by local authorities. Sadly though that was sold off.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 9:35 pm
  #759  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
I think you mean the landlord and the tenant?

That rather depends on the rental property and the ilk of the landlord. What they are looking to achieve. If they are fair or exploitative. It also depends on there being enough rental stock for the demand.
That there is even talk of regulating or capping rents states that there is and has been an issue. The best rental stock really would be that which is managed and regulated by local authorities. Sadly though that was sold off.
The buyer and seller of the service - in this case tenant & landlord.

Again, the "fair" rent is that which is freely agreed between the two.

The talk about capping/regulating is that same talk about spending hundreds of billions buying water companies, rail companies, internet cable companies and on and on - a leftist desire to centralise control and have the people dependent upon government for most things.

Rents in some areas of the UK are "high" because an inelastic supply cannot keep up with a booming local demand - an increased population driven by persistent high net immigration of fecund migrants.

Local authorities often made miserable landlords, people like council housing because they like "something for nothing" - i.e. a subsidised rent.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 10:04 pm
  #760  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The buyer and seller of the service - in this case tenant & landlord.

Again, the "fair" rent is that which is freely agreed between the two.

The talk about capping/regulating is that same talk about spending hundreds of billions buying water companies, rail companies, internet cable companies and on and on - a leftist desire to centralise control and have the people dependent upon government for most things.

Rents in some areas of the UK are "high" because an inelastic supply cannot keep up with a booming local demand - an increased population driven by persistent high net immigration of fecund migrants.

Local authorities often made miserable landlords, people like council housing because they like "something for nothing" - i.e. a subsidised rent.
This doesn't make much sense to me to be honest in terms of national interest. By that I mean the welfare of the country.

Again, the "fair" rent is that which is freely agreed between the two.
Even this is ?
A rent is set by a landlord. If there is a shortage of rental stock then an ignoble landlord could command an unfair rent for a sub standard rental property. Regulating or capping that is a way to ensure fair rents and standards. Now in an ideal world , which we do not live in, private landlords would all be fair minded however most see a rental property as an investment to make money. That does not go hand in hand sometimes with fair rents and good standards. Now I am not stating this for all landlords at all but there is a difficulty with this market and it needs addressing.

A publically owned rental stock is about putting rooves over heads and for a rent that is affordable.

Of course public utilities shouldn't be owned or operated by private investors and companies, particularly those from overseas. They should be owned & operated by the country concerned. The nation as a whole each paying a % of tax towards that. That taxation should be apportioned fairly as a % of earnings and investments in an affordable way.

Addressing the odd remark about immigrants. BE is made up of immigrants and expats. My mum was an immigrant to the UK. I'm an immigrant to NZ. The UK is a huge melting pot of immigrants past present and future. They are not just arriving to nick jobs and take housing & I have no idea why you would even think that.

I have a doubt that you actually really believe a lot of what you write. Having said that a little dissent and alternative viewpoint is a good thing.

I also wonder if you deliberately determined to try to somehow insult my own family with your remark about council housing. It doesn't bother me as such as I am secure in my experience and knowledge but I must say I am rather hoping it was not so from you as that would negate entirely much and most of what you write.

Last edited by BEVS; Dec 3rd 2019 at 10:08 pm. Reason: quotes missus. quotes
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 10:07 pm
  #761  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Bevs, you deservedly enjoy a fairly high degree of credibility here. And although I enthusiastically applaud your sentiments, I believe arguing with the likes of blueboy doesn't serve you well. Leave that to those who have nothing to lose.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 10:15 pm
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I know you like to pretend total neutrality on the Brexit question but the truth always shines through brightly in posts like this

To add to what has already been said above, though, no - the UK didn't suddenly wake up one morning feeling all Eurosceptic. In fact, the EU featured very low indeed on the list of national concerns prior to Cameron's dick-headedness in trying to use a referendum to resolve an internal party matter. Then the whole thing was ramped up by the ultra Eurosceptics and their propaganda wing, consisting of almost the entirety of the UK press and duly amplified by the broadcast media, both as of old habit and, worse on this occasion, because of fear of accusations of partiality. Not to mention the deluge of panic-inducing shit that was launched via social media etc, which so many seem to rely on for "information" these days and share content from amongst each other.

There's nothing at all wrong with having another referendum. It all depends how its approached and on its being used to resolve, as opposed to inflame, tensions.
I am totally neutral as I haven't lived in the UK for 31 years. When I left there were only 12 countries part of the EU or whatever it was called then. The other 16 joined after I left. FOM as far as I recall was virtually non existent apart from those who wanted a retirement home in Spain, Portugal etc. I am sure some did work abroad and some came to the UK to work but certainly not in the numbers we see today. Unless I win the lottery over here I have no desire to return to the UK to live so again no position on Leave or Remain.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 10:17 pm
  #763  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Bevs, you deservedly enjoy a fairly high degree of credibility here. And although I enthusiastically applaud your sentiments, I believe arguing with the likes of blueboy doesn't serve you well. Leave that to those who have nothing to lose.
Speaking of credibility, you guys might command a bit more respect if you weren't continually using terms such as "blueboy" "Cappy" "Crap Blue" or any number of other pathetic shorthand epithets during these exchanges.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 10:41 pm
  #764  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Rents in some areas of the UK are "high" because an inelastic supply cannot keep up with a booming local demand - an increased population driven by persistent high net immigration of fecund migrants.
Part of that inelastic supply is the continued creation of jobs where there is a large pool of workers. and infrastructure. And where jobs are created in areas of low unemployment, those jobs will attract people from outside the area to either take those jobs, or take on the jobs vacated by locals who have left their previous employer to join the new one.

What needs to happen is for jobs to be created in areas of high unemployment, with which the EU has helped a lot with development funding for infrastructure and jobs. Merthyr Tydfil in Wales went from being a major town in a coal-mining area to a run-down town after the coal mines closed, but is now doing well since EU funds regenerated the area, including upgrading the A465 Heads of the Valleys road to a dual carriageway. EU funds have done the same for many other former mining communities.

The availability of employment is a big factor in rents because most people don't want to commute 90 mins to work, and want to live near where the jobs are. And as I said, employers create jobs where people are. You're a fan of automation. What happens to those people when technology puts them out of a job and the area goes from low unemployment to higher unemployment?

Local authorities often made miserable landlords, people like council housing because they like "something for nothing" - i.e. a subsidised rent.
People liked social housing because the rules were understood, but social housing was never 'something for nothing'. I grew up in social housing, and my father worked almost all his life and we paid the rent, but that rent didn't come to nearly half of his pay back then. Wages actually paid the bills in those days.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:56 pm
  #765  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Well let's hope him and his regressive Soviet era policies never get a look in.
Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Can you explain which part of the policies and manifesto are representative of the Soviet era please?
mc? I think you missed that question.
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