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Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:17 am
  #691  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

The result of the 2016 referendum is held by many remainers to be unsatisfactory - indeed unacceptable for many well known reasons.

Question to the remainers on here: if a second referendum were held and the result was to leave, would you accept it?

Me: yes.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:20 am
  #692  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
More 'Red Herring'. A referendum was held. The majority voted to leave. Both parties said they would respect the referendum i.e. the majority of M.Ps; Three years later we are still nowhere they backtracked. You want to remain, I want to leave. The vote was to leave but Parliament didn't keep to it's word.
Not so.

Passing over the issue of whether the majority of MPs did, in fact, personally commit to "respecting the referendum" in quite the manner being pushed in some quarters, parliament has consistently voted for steps which take the UK out of the EU. They even voted in agreement with progression to the debating of the hardline Brexiteer WA presented by PM Johnson.

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
We are not going to agree and we can pick at it as much as we like. One of us will be disappointed after the 12th.
In terms of whether Brexit will actually happen or in what manner? That might be a very long way from being decided on the 12th.

Perhaps we can find something else for one of us to be disappointed about if that's the case
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:21 am
  #693  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
The result of the 2016 referendum is held by many remainers to be unsatisfactory - indeed unacceptable for many well known reasons.

Question to the remainers on here: if a second referendum were held and the result was to leave, would you accept it?

Me: yes.
<<<SNIP>>> talk is cheap. Shard said the same thing the other day and I don't believe him either.

The evidence of the last three years suggests you'd throw everything you have at agitating opinion and getting the result overturned.

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Dec 3rd 2019 at 11:47 am. Reason: Abuse
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:27 am
  #694  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
talk is cheap. Shard said the same thing the other day and I don't believe him either.

The evidence of the last three years suggests you'd throw everything you have at agitating opinion and getting the result overturned.
I voted 'remain' but would certainly acept the result of a second referendum, the first was ill thought out by the government, and the 'leave' people were allowed to ride roughshod of the legalities of conducting the referendum, which has been proven in court, but as the referendum as advisory only the result couldn't be overturned because of the illegalities. I would trust that whoever worded the second referendum did so so that it was legally binding, and that there would be full scrutiny of the groups on both sides. The referendum would have to be worded far better as well, as many people didn't really know what they were voting for.

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Dec 3rd 2019 at 11:47 am. Reason: Edit to quote
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:28 am
  #695  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
I wondered if someone would eventually ask. As for being 'tangible' that would depend on whether you agree with me or not doesn't it? If you don't agree then you'e not going to agree it is tangible. My reason for wanting to exit the E.U. is very simple. I want my country to be independent. Nothing complicated in that. I believe that Britain makes it's own rules and laws. In support of that I would say, old fashioned and unwelcome as it is today, that nearly 60 million people died for that right.

It doesn't mean I want Britain isolated in anyway, before we joined we weren't so I don't see why, after we leave, it should be different. If forces outside of our control try to make it hard then it would have to be dealt with in some way but why should they? People have their own opinion regarding staying or leaving. I have no problem whatsoever with someone wanting to remain. I just don't agree with that view.
Fair enough. And aside from the UK's substantial existing "independence", and the inevitable "dependence" on others as a result, you're (presumably) willing to accept the consequences of that exercise.

​​​​​​As I've said all along, if England wants to leave, it should leave. But it should be aware of what it means. There is no cake. There's actually nothing of any value other than the illusion of "independence". And if that that is your rationale, and it makes you feel better, then at least you aren't clinging to false premises for your rationale (as most leavers do).

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 3rd 2019 at 11:30 am.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:35 am
  #696  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
and talk is cheap. Shard said the same thing the other day and I don't believe him either.

The evidence of the last three years suggests you'd throw everything you have at agitating opinion and getting the result overturned.
The evidence of the last three years clearly shows that the leave camp will stop at nothing, including subversive tactics solely designed to avert democratic process.

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Dec 3rd 2019 at 11:48 am. Reason: Edit to quote
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:40 am
  #697  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
The result of the 2016 referendum is held by many remainers to be unsatisfactory - indeed unacceptable for many well known reasons.

Question to the remainers on here: if a second referendum were held and the result was to leave, would you accept it?

Me: yes.
Yes.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:54 am
  #698  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
In the same way as the first one is disputed!!!
No, won't happen. Everyone is tired of Brexit. Remainers challenge the first result on 1. the basis that voters were poorly informed (and/or mislead) and 2. the outcome of Brexit (an orderly withdrawal vs a sudden withdrawal) were not known. Second time, these challenges would be answered. It would be a more informed referendum, and given the 4 years of indecision, it would be listened to.

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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:55 am
  #699  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
The result of the 2016 referendum is held by many remainers to be unsatisfactory - indeed unacceptable for many well known reasons.

Question to the remainers on here: if a second referendum were held and the result was to leave, would you accept it?

Me: yes.
Yes.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 11:59 am
  #700  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
<<<SNIP>>> talk is cheap. Shard said the same thing the other day and I don't believe him either.

The evidence of the last three years suggests you'd throw everything you have at agitating opinion and getting the result overturned.
Why? Do you honestly think Remainers are unable to compromise or enjoy putting the national agenda on hold. Having said that, if there is no referendum, and Johnson continues to try and bring us to a hard Brexit, it's something I would resist.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 12:02 pm
  #701  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Fair enough. And aside from the UK's substantial existing "independence", and the inevitable "dependence" on others as a result, you're (presumably) willing to accept the consequences of that exercise.

​​​​​​As I've said all along, if England wants to leave, it should leave. But it should be aware of what it means. There is no cake. There's actually nothing of any value other than the illusion of "independence". And if that that is your rationale, and it makes you feel better, then at least you aren't clinging to false premises for your rationale (as most leavers do).
Spot on. And how bizarre that Brits like KJMW live in Europe and bang on about how important independence is... hypocrisy or what?
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 12:03 pm
  #702  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Spot on. And how bizarre that Brits like KJMW live in Europe and bang on about how important independence is... hypocrisy or what?
Everybody living in the UK lives in Europe and I wan't to keep it that way.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 12:09 pm
  #703  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

No I would want a best out of 5

Now being serious. I left the UK in 1988 so the EU then wasn't as it is now. My question would be why did the UK want a referendum in the 1st place if the EU is so great as some wish to claim? What brought about the referendum? Did the UK suddenly wake up one morning and think Lets have a referendum on if we should Leave or Remain in the EU. That is the question we will ask on the ballot paper and it will be up to each side to convince the UK public on which result will be the best for the UK.
Well we saw what happened.
From my view you have a divided country and even if a 2nd referendum was held whichever side won there would still be a huge amount of pissed off Brits on the side that lost the 2nd referendum.
Have fun in the UK I might just go back for a vacation one day.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 12:11 pm
  #704  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
Everybody living in the UK lives in Europe and I wan't to keep it that way.
Me too.
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Old Dec 3rd 2019, 12:16 pm
  #705  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
No I would want a best out of 5

Now being serious. I left the UK in 1988 so the EU then wasn't as it is now. My question would be why did the UK want a referendum in the 1st place if the EU is so great as some wish to claim? What brought about the referendum? Did the UK suddenly wake up one morning and think Lets have a referendum on if we should Leave or Remain in the EU. That is the question we will ask on the ballot paper and it will be up to each side to convince the UK public on which result will be the best for the UK.
Well we saw what happened.
From my view you have a divided country and even if a 2nd referendum was held whichever side won there would still be a huge amount of pissed off Brits on the side that lost the 2nd referendum.
Have fun in the UK I might just go back for a vacation one day.
BBC did an excellent 3-part series on what led to the referendum. Essentially, there's always been a small minority that hate the EU. Failed politician Nigel Farage capitalised on that, and goaded Cameron to hold a referendum. After decades of EU bashing in the UK press, years of austerity, and a temporary migration crisis, voters voted out by a very narrow margin.
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