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Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Old Nov 20th 2019, 10:52 am
  #271  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
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I'm a remainer, not a remainiac.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 11:04 am
  #272  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
That looked so spectacularly wrong that I had to check it out and you did indeed make it up. Can't imagine why Bluey believed it but I suppose it just goes to show how easy it is to get people to believe a lie unquestioningly.

Here's the actual proposal :

General election 2019: Workers under Labour 'will take back control'

There, happy now? You OK with public sector chief execs being on capped salaries or would you rather they were paid squillions out of the public purse?
Originally Posted by Scamp View Post


Genuine mistake actually, thanks for correcting me.

I don’t think any chief executive should have their salary capped. If the public sector employed a private sector mentality they might be more successful.
Ah the usual Eric response - firstly I took Scamp's quote at face value as he's a sensible poster and there really isn't time to fact check each and every post on this forum, especially when it doesn't seem that outlandish - with your usual bile you state that he made it up and I want to unquestioningly believe a lie.

Secondly it is not just the public sector, it is also any company providing services to the public sector - private companies.

Thirdly, the rest of Labours interference with people's private property - forcing companies to change their board structure to put leftists on each board and also forcing them to give away shares into a fund - shows that the concept of a blanket £350K cap was not outlandish at all.

Fourthly, what you will get is the best people not wanting to work for an overly politicised salary capped public sector.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 1:00 pm
  #273  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
...there really isn't time to fact check each and every post on this forum, especially when it doesn't seem that outlandish...
Your response - "It always surprises me how authoritarian leftists like Labour want to get - to micro manage people's lives to fit their idea of how things should be. The only people who should be involved in a CEO's pay are the shareholders, if they are happy how their money is being spent it has nothing to do with government" - certainly suggests you believe it to be an outlandish idea.

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Old Nov 20th 2019, 1:41 pm
  #274  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Ah the usual Eric response - firstly I took Scamp's quote at face value as he's a sensible poster and there really isn't time to fact check each and every post on this forum, especially when it doesn't seem that outlandish - with your usual bile you state that he made it up and I want to unquestioningly believe a lie.

Secondly it is not just the public sector, it is also any company providing services to the public sector - private companies.
Thirdly, the rest of Labours interference with people's private property - forcing companies to change their board structure to put leftists on each board and also forcing them to give away shares into a fund - shows that the concept of a blanket £350K cap was not outlandish at all.
Fourthly, what you will get is the best people not wanting to work for an overly politicised salary capped public sector.
... .... Getting a bit windy there CB?
What's wrong with those who work in a business being represented on its Board??? If nothing else they can speak from experience on how the business runs, including defects - waste, double handling, duplicated resources. What's wrong with that????
Your other argument is a fallacy. Employees have no incentive to wreck a successful business (Note: I said successful not the zombie type) - Their jobs depend upon the business succeeding.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 1:58 pm
  #275  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Ah the usual Eric response - firstly I took Scamp's quote at face value as he's a sensible poster and there really isn't time to fact check each and every post on this forum, especially when it doesn't seem that outlandish - with your usual bile you state that he made it up and I want to unquestioningly believe a lie.
Odd - time doesn't seem to be in short supply for you when you want to challenge or mock each and every thing that's said.

Just to be clear, though, I was ribbing Scamp a bit rather than accusing him of purposely attempting to propagate a lie. And I merely said that if you'd believed it so willingly, it shows how easy it is to get people generally to believe an outright lie (like the one Johnson pulled the other day when he said Jeremy Corbyn didn't believe in people owning their own homes)

I also think the fact that you both got it so wrong is testament to the power of the material you read, which shows in one way or another in most of your posts.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Secondly it is not just the public sector, it is also any company providing services to the public sector - private companies.
Good.

There are enough of them about which exist solely thanks to the obsession with privatising and outsourcing of services from the public sector and which do nothing else besides.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Thirdly, the rest of Labours interference with people's private property - forcing companies to change their board structure to put leftists on each board and also forcing them to give away shares into a fund - shows that the concept of a blanket £350K cap was not outlandish at all.
Have you any evidence of that?

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Fourthly, what you will get is the best people not wanting to work for an overly politicised salary capped public sector.
I'm sure there'll still be plenty of takers for a salary of £350,000 plus whatever other non-salarial perks go with the job. The best people aren't necessarily obsessed with where they can wring the most money from, you know
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 2:00 pm
  #276  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
... .... Getting a bit windy there CB?
Positively "pissy" and "bent out of shape" if you ask me.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 2:24 pm
  #277  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
I don’t think any chief executive should have their salary capped. If the public sector employed a private sector mentality they might be more successful.
Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
They should expect better. There’s too many people in the public sector stealing a living in big SPVs achieving nothing. Attract some public sector brains and ruthlessness and see what can be achieved.
Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
The biggest crippler of the public sectors is the waste, lots is human waste too. So many quangos and committees and people earning a fortune to do nothing. It's seen as an easy ride for life, earn less than the private sector but do less, ride it out, big pension, jackpot.
Your wishes have been granted a thousand times over in the past few decades.

The provision of public services in the UK has been, and continues to be, ripped out of public hands. You can't move in the public sector for private sector involvement - it's absolutely everywhere. There have been years and years and years and years of everything being in a constant state of flux for anyone in any branch of public service at all. Everything that can be, being organised as a business. And far from being the boon you project, its often an uneasy or downright damaging relationship. Some of the very worst scandals, overspends and massively expensive flops are directly down to these giant private organisations that run practically everything in the UK today.

And still we grind on and still these myths about attitudes in the public sector are peddled as uncontestable truths.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 3:23 pm
  #278  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Your wishes have been granted a thousand times over in the past few decades.

The provision of public services in the UK has been, and continues to be, ripped out of public hands. You can't move in the public sector for private sector involvement - it's absolutely everywhere. There have been years and years and years and years of everything being in a constant state of flux for anyone in any branch of public service at all. Everything that can be, being organised as a business. And far from being the boon you project, its often an uneasy or downright damaging relationship. Some of the very worst scandals, overspends and massively expensive flops are directly down to these giant private organisations that run practically everything in the UK today.

And still we grind on and still these myths about attitudes in the public sector are peddled as uncontestable truths.
Even local authority departments are run as businesses these days, especially as they now bill other departments of the same LA for work done where it used to be 'in-house'.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 3:34 pm
  #279  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Even local authority departments are run as businesses these days, especially as they now bill other departments of the same LA for work done where it used to be 'in-house'.
Spot-on DLD - Well said!
The lunacy of in-house-billing, departmental cross-charging, and target out-turns inevitably drives up fixed and operating costs as each Dept competes to 'Bill more' for services, the levels which in turn are reduced to the Council tax-payers. I'm told that certain UK LA's these days are little more than cost-centres, whose main object isn't the provision of public services as paid for, but maintenance of KPI's for the Chief Executive to reach his "Business Target/s"
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 4:07 pm
  #280  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
The provision of public services in the UK has been, and continues to be, ripped out of public hands. You can't move in the public sector for private sector involvement - it's absolutely everywhere. There have been years and years and years and years of everything being in a constant state of flux for anyone in any branch of public service at all. Everything that can be, being organised as a business. And far from being the boon you project, its often an uneasy or downright damaging relationship. Some of the very worst scandals, overspends and massively expensive flops are directly down to these giant private organisations that run practically everything in the UK today.

And still we grind on and still these myths about attitudes in the public sector are peddled as uncontestable truths.
G4S responsible for about half on their own. A4e and loads of other bogus training providers. Ten scandals since 2010
Probation service failures.

Atos, Capita, Maximus...It's endless.

Last edited by BristolUK; Nov 20th 2019 at 4:15 pm.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 5:11 pm
  #281  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
G4S responsible for about half on their own. A4e and loads of other bogus training providers. Ten scandals since 2010
Probation service failures.

Atos, Capita, Maximus...It's endless.
All those superior private sector brains getting stuff done better cheaper
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 5:15 pm
  #282  
 
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Your wishes have been granted a thousand times over in the past few decades.

The provision of public services in the UK has been, and continues to be, ripped out of public hands. You can't move in the public sector for private sector involvement - it's absolutely everywhere. There have been years and years and years and years of everything being in a constant state of flux for anyone in any branch of public service at all. Everything that can be, being organised as a business. And far from being the boon you project, its often an uneasy or downright damaging relationship. Some of the very worst scandals, overspends and massively expensive flops are directly down to these giant private organisations that run practically everything in the UK today.

And still we grind on and still these myths about attitudes in the public sector are peddled as uncontestable truths.

This.

The whole "efficiency" and "brightest and best" and "excellence" attributed by definition to the private sector and their opposites to the public sector is simply a tendentious myth. Just look at the corruption, the illicit windfalls, the thievery, the exploitation, the muddle, the inefficiency, the padding and pork-barreling, the asset-stripping and profit-taking that have gone on in the private sector in addition to the whopping salary and benefit packages. Nothing magic about the private sector.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 5:28 pm
  #283  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
This.

The whole "efficiency" and "brightest and best" and "excellence" attributed by definition to the private sector and their opposites to the public sector is simply a tendentious myth. Just look at the corruption, the illicit windfalls, the thievery, the exploitation, the muddle, the inefficiency, the padding and pork-barreling, the asset-stripping and profit-taking that have gone on in the private sector in addition to the whopping salary and benefit packages. Nothing magic about the private sector.
I used to think there was (younger days) but I'm wiser now. Both sectors have their merits and their failings.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 5:39 pm
  #284  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Your response - "It always surprises me how authoritarian leftists like Labour want to get - to micro manage people's lives to fit their idea of how things should be. The only people who should be involved in a CEO's pay are the shareholders, if they are happy how their money is being spent it has nothing to do with government" - certainly suggests you believe it to be an outlandish idea.
It doesn't seem that outlandish that green-eyed jealousy-crazed leftists would propose it.
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Old Nov 20th 2019, 6:10 pm
  #285  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Odd - time doesn't seem to be in short supply for you when you want to challenge or mock each and every thing that's said.

Just to be clear, though, I was ribbing Scamp a bit rather than accusing him of purposely attempting to propagate a lie. And I merely said that if you'd believed it so willingly, it shows how easy it is to get people generally to believe an outright lie (like the one Johnson pulled the other day when he said Jeremy Corbyn didn't believe in people owning their own homes)

I also think the fact that you both got it so wrong is testament to the power of the material you read, which shows in one way or another in most of your posts.
And yet you got it wrong because it is not only the public sector but also private companies - sounds like a testament to the power of the material you read, which shows in one way or another in most of your posts.

Have you any evidence of that?
Plenty - google away.


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