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Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Old Nov 17th 2019, 8:55 pm
  #166  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I'm fairly certain he wouldn't have put it in quite such a way but how does that contradict anything I said?

You were asking why he refused to state clearly which way he would vote in such a referendum.

And to add to what I said above, I'm aware that he has previously (and since that comment I quoted) said that he couldn't commit himself on the matter without knowing the outcome of their negotiations, which seems to be a fairly sanguine comment, whichever way he is supposedly currently inclined to think.
Given that his deal is very likely to be closer to the EU than the BoJo/May deal, and that it's his deal, he should say he will vote for that deal. That's surely his default position. Unless he wants to be a purist like Swinson, his only option is to vote for the deal he negotiates. So he should say that. He completely muddies the water and confuses many would be voters by refusing to commit.




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Old Nov 17th 2019, 9:04 pm
  #167  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Given that his deal is very likely to be closer to the EU than the BoJo/May deal, and that it's his deal, he should say he will vote for that deal. That's surely his default position. Unless he wants to be a purist like Swinson, his only option is to vote for the deal he negotiates. So he should say that. He completely muddies the water and confuses many would be voters by refusing to commit.
Well that's part of the dilemma and possibly part of the way out of this mess, isn't it?

If you were leading the party as a confirmed remainer but with the party advocating negotiating a future relationship of maximum convergence (whilst at the same time unequivocally leaving the EU) and then putting that agreement back to the public against a stay-as-we-are option, how would you answer the question at this stage? With a crucial election looming large and painfully aware that a chunk of your voters want the UK to leave?
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 4:54 am
  #168  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
That's the ticket

Healthy mouth, healthy body and I'm sure we're all aware of the strong link between good healthcare and a thriving economy.
Definitely. Also, with the free internet, people can research how good life could have been if we didn't revert to unionised, nationalised socialism.

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Why is Jezza so f---ing useless? Just saw him on Marr, can he not even dare to speak simple truth. 1. How would he vote on Brexit? 2. What would the EU negotitated deal look like. I'll answer for him: 1. Leave; 2. BRINO. Just spit it out man. Number 2, if Labour gets in, will come out - there's no reason not to sketch it out now. We've seen May's deal, we've seen BoJo's deal, he's intimating that il will be closer, but he won't flesh it out. He's obfuscating. On Number 1, his own personal choice is immaterial, from what he's committed to on the process (re-negotiation and referendum) and on the low involvement he maintains on Brexit, and Labour party policy, it's clear that he will not be fixated on a Brexit decision. He should answer the question openly.


Originally Posted by Annetje View Post
And here I was, replying to you who thought the ''Tories'' were the least worst option.
Sorry about that
No, no, no, I was just being a dick to be honest Annetje. On the 'Tories in chaos' thread I mentioned Corbyn too many times and was told to go and talk about him somewhere else. So let's apply some consistency - I know it's hard for Labour fans to do that - it's far easier to just blame everything on the Tories.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Oh Eric knows. He recently had his arse handed to him on this very point by Scamp.
Even if this did make me chuckle and I appreciate the kudos, I definitely wouldn't want to be a dick to Red Eric. He's capable of sensible discussion and oodles of sarcasm which makes it easier to float in these pools of debate.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 5:23 am
  #169  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
Definitely. Also, with the free internet, people can research how good life could have been if we didn't revert to unionised, nationalised socialism.
Originally Posted by Scamp
No, no, no, I was just being a dick to be honest Annetje. On the 'Tories in chaos' thread I mentioned Corbyn too many times and was told to go and talk about him somewhere else. So let's apply some consistency - I know it's hard for Labour fans to do that - it's far easier to just blame everything on the Tories.
I'm actually quite - read that as very- interested in your views and outlook Scamp. That is regardless of whether or not I agree with said views or outlook. I'm interested to hear from you as a young Scamp looking to get wed and with a life before you. Someone that currently lives away from the UK but would look to return to live? I am not sure of your background really , as in the socio -economic group of your parents and I am not asking for that at all. Make this clear for everyone. I am not asking for Scamp to do that. It is his own business. But I am really interested to just read and take in your own thoughts and viewpoint on the UK political situation as someone of a differing generation to me.

What influences you. What would make you buy onto one mantra over another .

I've been around the block a few decades and have always been something of a political animal I suppose. I am interested in the word 'blame' also. So easy to lay blame at the door of the past . all past. It doesn't ever address the present.

I also realise that maybe a Red/Blue thread is not the place to maybe ask but I am interested.


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Old Nov 18th 2019, 5:25 am
  #170  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
I'm actually quite - read that as very- interested in your views and outlook Scamp. That is regardless of whether or not I agree with said views or outlook. I'm interested to hear from you as a young Scamp looking to get wed and with a life before you. Someone that currently lives away from the UK but would look to return to live? I am not sure of your background really , as in the socio -economic group of your parents and I am not asking for that at all. Make this clear for everyone. I am not asking for Scamp to do that. It is his own business. But I am really interested to just read and take in your own thoughts and viewpoint on the UK political situation as someone of a differing generation to me.

What influences you. What would make you buy onto one mantra over another .

I've been around the block a few decades and have always been something of a political animal I suppose. I am interested in the word 'blame' also. So easy to lay blame at the door of the past . all past. It doesn't ever address the present.

I also realise that maybe a Red/Blue thread is not the place to maybe ask but I am interested.
He's looking to get wed, that tells you all you need to know about his intellect
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 5:41 am
  #171  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
it wasn't the Labour Party that caused the 2008/09 calamity (and in fact Brown was instrumental in reducing its impact) , but neither was the Conservative Party and a global calamity like that takes years to pull out of
When I was in the US, Republicans used to say how bad Obama was doing but he was just sorting out the shit sandwich he had been handed by Bush and the global financial crisis and I thought it pretty disingenuous for them to do that - ditto your link and implications re the Tories.
All of this goes back to a blame game, which is pointless, rather than addressing the present. It is the current policies surely that count. The hard core of a manifesto. " A Manifesto" .

Unfortunately these years, it seems to me , we do not really have politicians so much. By that I mean those that truly believe in their hearts that what they believe in is for the actual good of all people of their nation or country & will stand by that no matter what. I could name a few that did but they are long gone.. Most seem bent on using the political arena these days as some sort of career move which it was never meant to be . Yes. There are some good'uns in there who speak out and hope for debate but really that mostly falls on deaf ears.

I don't know when that change started to come about . The change from everyone looking to the good of a country to benefit the whole of the country. Maybe the 80's . I do know that the intervening decades have not brought about a greater good for the UK nation. That the media is negatively overly involved in manipulating an electorate . That many of those that sit in the House of Commons really should not be there at all for they have no heart, vision or soul for the country at all.

The country does not need pizzazz or sabre rattling. It needs a firm hand and a clear vision. To me it doesn't matter if that might not be my leanings. It is that the state of honest and true democracy could be reset. That a country , which means its people, would be steered properly, for that is what a true elected government is supposed to do . From that the country might find its way back to its heart and its people. Right now it is lost.


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Old Nov 18th 2019, 5:43 am
  #172  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
He's looking to get wed, that tells you all you need to know about his intellect
*sigh*

I'd like to be able to hear from him. From him.

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Old Nov 18th 2019, 6:06 am
  #173  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
I'm actually quite - read that as very- interested in your views and outlook Scamp. That is regardless of whether or not I agree with said views or outlook. I'm interested to hear from you as a young Scamp looking to get wed and with a life before you. Someone that currently lives away from the UK but would look to return to live? I am not sure of your background really , as in the socio -economic group of your parents and I am not asking for that at all. Make this clear for everyone. I am not asking for Scamp to do that. It is his own business. But I am really interested to just read and take in your own thoughts and viewpoint on the UK political situation as someone of a differing generation to me.

What influences you. What would make you buy onto one mantra over another .

I've been around the block a few decades and have always been something of a political animal I suppose. I am interested in the word 'blame' also. So easy to lay blame at the door of the past . all past. It doesn't ever address the present.

I also realise that maybe a Red/Blue thread is not the place to maybe ask but I am interested.
OK. It's complicated.
Dad comes from Labour-leaning Catholic Scottish family that was fundamentally middle class, with socialist roots I guess.
Mum comes from the deep Southern heartlands of the Conservatives. She still reads the Daily Mail. Grew up very comfortably but not rich.
Prior to them splitting we were wealthy by normal standards, big house, posh cars, big holidays. All went tits up in early 90's recession, lost everything, split up.
After they split up it wasn't comfortable and I remember going without or having the cheapest or making do for a long time. When I got to my mid / late teens Dad's business took off and he moved back to the life he had with Mum, probably even wealthier in fact, retired at 51 I think.
At the same time, Mum's career was doing great and she could provide a far greater level of financial comfort to life and now is nearly retired and very upper middle class in terms of cash I guess.
Both have never really changed in terms of outlook on things, values, morals, desires, fears, worries. Dad STILL worries about money. Mum STILL talks about not wasting things from when we had nothing to waste.
Really hard to articulate without war and peace and without sounding like a dick, so apologies.
Whilst I may only be 31 (and a half ) I've lived overseas for almost 9 years now and despite Dubai's bubble-like nature I'm back to the UK regularly through each year for visits or work so am not completely removed from some of the realities of life, I'd like to think anyway.
I think my opinions come from the better parts of my life, perhaps. I know how to be sensible and I know how to save or not waste or get by. I'm good at that when I need to be. I also like nice shit and I also work hard for it and will continue to do so. I've seen both parents go from wealthy to bankrupt to wealthy. I see literally no barriers to anyone becoming a success whether financial or otherwise.

I'm not buying into anything yet I don't think. I'm opting out at the moment. I really hope it makes sense. I'm not interested in Labour's big shift left, I'm not interested in Corbyn - I see him as a total fraud being lauded as the holier than thou man we need to lead our nation.
I spoke to both parents on this very recently. Briefly with Mum because I was letting her know she'll get my postal vote soon and told her how tight the constituency was so I need to think hard. Her response was along the lines of a rant about Corbyn being anti-semitic etc.
Dad in much greater detail and he's a bit more balanced but his summary was "I just can't find a way to recommend anyone vote Labour whilst Corbyn's in charge. but you're right, the Conservatives moving right makes it a pretty awful choice". I think that's almost word for word.
So, I know what I don't like, yet. I know I don't like one side.
Boris - I can take or leave. He's made far more progress than many could or would with Brexit and getting a deal. He tried everything to make something happen. I hugely appreciate and respect the desire to get shit done. Brexit, whilst I voted Remain, needs to either be cancelled and the fall out handled (disastrous potentially, I think) OR needs to just bloody happen. The UK cannot continue in this purgatory.
Do I care whether people are falling for political bullshit and lies in the media? Not one bit.
Do I think ANY parties are 100% clean and honest? hahahahahha No.
The videos being shared on social media are laughable. It's like there's 3 words in a 500 word statement that people focus on and then the world explodes and this party are this or this party are that.

It seems to be deliberately forgotten that the deal is a temporary measure for a finite period. The sooner we leave the sooner the UK can progress and move on. There is a long future ahead and we aren't actually doing any work towards it yet.
I thoroughly dislike the political battleground that Brexit has become and whilst the Tories are lucky they're in power and can remain the 'positive' voters because they're trying to get on with it, it means the opposition and other parties who vote constantly against deals are the ones blocking progress. Do I think Corbyn could get a better deal than Boris or May or Joe Bloggs? No. I don't think any of them are capable of getting a 'great' deal because one isn't on the table. We're going to have to make sacrifices and make things work.

I might have said it a few times or alluded to it, but I believe in getting things done. I don't believe in dicking around or playing games. I want to see progress, I want to see forward movement. I cannot believe the UK public are still buying all this shit with Brexit, it's disastrous and quite why there isn't a unified march on Westminster saying "HURRY THE **** UP WE'VE ALL GOT LIVES TO LIVE" is beyond me.

Using generation stereotypes, I think this helps to explain: I'm very much a millenial in terms of the year born. I'm not really a full whack millenial though - yes, I think boomers have had it easy their entire lives (laying blame with the past?), yes I think we're an inbetween generation that doesn't fit and yes I'm more concerned about the environment and charitable work than other generations it seems.....however, I'm not a whiny little bitch like so many. I want to work hard, I've been with the same company nearly 8 years and I've got a lot of the attitudes of older generations as well about sort of shutting up and getting on with it etc.

I definitely don't join a lot of young voters in automatically hating the Conservatives. Intelligent friends seem to just think, blame the 'elites'. You're a ****ing elite you pleb, you're white, middle class and grew up in the South and have a good job in London. What isn't elite about that in the modern day UK?

I'm not defending the conservatives or saying they're the best thing since sliced bread but when have any ruling party been praised for doing a good job in the run up to an election? When have any opposition been congratulated for having some good manifesto ideas? It's like we're living in some sort of alternative reality where only one party can do wrong and anyone can find stats to prove it. I'm just left aghast at some of the idiocy.

Don't think this rambling really answers any of your questions so I'm really sorry about that but my fingers hurt and I'm 6 minutes late for a meeting.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 6:18 am
  #174  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Okays. I have to go and make tea .
Can people not pick apart Scamp's post to me please. It is to me at my request.
I want to really read it so I can get a grip of his thinking and process.

Call that - democracy.

Edit... I may move this out into a thread of its own. A non politically aligned thread where we explore our leanings without having to blasted well name some party or be seen to be in some court or another. That isn't what democracy is.

Ta!

Oh and I say that as me the poster -- but with me the person that can arbitrarily more posts. Irony.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 6:21 am
  #175  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
*sigh*

I'd like to be able to hear from him. From him.
Twas a joke Bev.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 7:31 am
  #176  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
He's looking to get wed, that tells you all you need to know about his intellect ������������
She finally mastered my favourite sandwich. I had to sign her up on a permanent contract to ensure consistency of weekend lunches.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 7:41 am
  #177  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
She finally mastered my favourite sandwich. I had to sign her up on a permanent contract to ensure consistency of weekend lunches.
Fair play, when you get one like that you've got to tie them into a contract. Make sure there's a pickle clause though, my wife palmed me off with that ploughman's shite instead of Branson's. That was a bad year for us.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 7:44 am
  #178  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Edit... I may move this out into a thread of its own. A non politically aligned thread where we explore our leanings without having to blasted well name some party or be seen to be in some court or another.
I like that idea. People might even understand one and other better.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 7:55 am
  #179  
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Smile Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
All of this goes back to a blame game, which is pointless, rather than addressing the present. It is the current policies surely that count. The hard core of a manifesto. " A Manifesto" .

Unfortunately these years, it seems to me , we do not really have politicians so much. By that I mean those that truly believe in their hearts that what they believe in is for the actual good of all people of their nation or country & will stand by that no matter what. I could name a few that did but they are long gone.. Most seem bent on using the political arena these days as some sort of career move which it was never meant to be . Yes. There are some good'uns in there who speak out and hope for debate but really that mostly falls on deaf ears.

I don't know when that change started to come about . The change from everyone looking to the good of a country to benefit the whole of the country. Maybe the 80's . I do know that the intervening decades have not brought about a greater good for the UK nation. That the media is negatively overly involved in manipulating an electorate . That many of those that sit in the House of Commons really should not be there at all for they have no heart, vision or soul for the country at all.

The country does not need pizzazz or sabre rattling. It needs a firm hand and a clear vision. To me it doesn't matter if that might not be my leanings. It is that the state of honest and true democracy could be reset. That a country , which means its people, would be steered properly, for that is what a true elected government is supposed to do . From that the country might find its way back to its heart and its people. Right now it is lost.
I wish i had it in me to write like this,thanks bev saves me all that typing,i agree with you 100% and because of the above i decided last week i was not going to vote for the first time in my life.I can not vote for what i want and the party to achieve this .So for me i do not think it will be jerry.
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Old Nov 18th 2019, 8:07 am
  #180  
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Default Re: Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
Fair play, when you get one like that you've got to tie them into a contract. Make sure there's a pickle clause though, my wife palmed me off with that ploughman's shite instead of Branson's. That was a bad year for us.
Similar clause, but I expect spring onion distribution to be across the entire sandwich, not centralised.
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