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President Trump

President Trump

Old Apr 18th 2017, 9:32 pm
  #7576  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I was referring to the recent "tax" rallies not prior ones about health care.
You actually wrote "I wish such marches if they do any good, would be towards better health care system than tax returns".

And that's exactly what has happened, both right before he took office and when the AHCA Act vote went down in flames at the end of February. And will likely happen again if and when the Republicans make another attempt to dismantle the ACA. Demonstrating against one thing doesn't preclude you against demonstrating against another.

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Old Apr 18th 2017, 9:35 pm
  #7577  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Where on his personal tax return would it show where funds came from that you refer to ? Perhaps you are not familiar with US tax returns. What is there to research on his tax returns if the information wouldn't appear on his personal returns those type of funds ?
Unless the loans, if any, were interest-free, they would either generate a 1099 informational return or he would need to substantiate any interest expense deduction he took another way on his tax return. The bottom line is that his tax return could be quite revealing, but we don't know for sure without actually seeing it.

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Old Apr 18th 2017, 9:49 pm
  #7578  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Additionally, given Trump's desire to "reform" the tax system, it's absolutely in the public interest to know exactly how those reforms would likely impact Trump's tax liabilities.

I guess morpeth was asleep in January when there were many healthcare rallies:

Health Care Rallies Jan. 15: List of Locations & How to Join | Heavy.com

I went to the one in San Francisco.

And at the end of February:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...lthcare-attack
My impression is those so concerned about his tax returns will be against any tax reform Trump proposes, while his supporters couldn't care much about what is in his returns. And he could care less now about the issue since he successful was able to be elected without releasing his returns.

In any case the silly health care bill he couldn't get passed with a Republican Congress. I think possible same result will happen with tax reform.

I am sure he has aggressively used the tax laws to his maximum advantage, and he has said so himself. So I remain unsure what is it that people think his tax returns will show ? The huge tax loss carried forward he had legal if he had the proper basis that created the losses, I wonder if he did.
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Old Apr 18th 2017, 9:55 pm
  #7579  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
My impression is those so concerned about his tax returns will be against any tax reform Trump proposes, while his supporters couldn't care much about what is in his returns. And he could care less now about the issue since he successful was able to be elected without releasing his returns.

In any case the silly health care bill he couldn't get passed with a Republican Congress. I think possible same result will happen with tax reform.

I am sure he has aggressively used the tax laws to his maximum advantage, and he has said so himself. So I remain unsure what is it that people think his tax returns will show ? The huge tax loss carried forward he had legal if he had the proper basis that created the losses, I wonder if he did.
It's called transparency, something you'd expect a president who claims he's draining the swamp to be all for. For example, candidate Trump said he wanted to abolish the Alternative Minimum Tax. How much, if any, would Trump likely benefit from such an abolition?

Anyway, it seems the Democrats are going to stall on tax reform unless and until Trump releases his returns. Good for them.

"Democrats have seized on that, uniting around a pledge not to cooperate on any tax code rewrite unless they know specifically how that revision would benefit the billionaire president and his family."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/u...aul-trump.html

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Old Apr 18th 2017, 9:58 pm
  #7580  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
My impression is those so concerned about his tax returns will be against any tax reform Trump proposes, while his supporters couldn't care much about what is in his returns. And he could care less now about the issue since he successful was able to be elected without releasing his returns.

In any case the silly health care bill he couldn't get passed with a Republican Congress. I think possible same result will happen with tax reform.

I am sure he has aggressively used the tax laws to his maximum advantage, and he has said so himself. So I remain unsure what is it that people think his tax returns will show ? The huge tax loss carried forward he had legal if he had the proper basis that created the losses, I wonder if he did.
I'll take the word of all of the tax accountants and lawyers that say he should most definitely release his taxes because we could learn a whole lot from them. There is a whole lot of "who" and "how much" that we've only taken his word for. Why are we are taking his word for anything when he is a known pathological liar?

You personally may not want to be informed but some of us like to know these things.
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:21 am
  #7581  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
I'll take the word of all of the tax accountants and lawyers that say he should most definitely release his taxes because we could learn a whole lot from them. There is a whole lot of "who" and "how much" that we've only taken his word for. Why are we are taking his word for anything when he is a known pathological liar?

You personally may not want to be informed but some of us like to know these things.
I guess I am just curious what is it that people expect to learn from his tax returns when I read people have the rather odd viewpoint that his tax returns will show for example what loans he has received from Russia etc., or the strange idea that someone with his wealth that (a) his wealth would be shown on his tax returns (b) that his personal tax returns would show overall what he is making or losing , as much of what he does will be through his various corporations.

My impression is that those clamoring the loudest for his tax returns are just looking for something else create negative publicity against Trump ( as if his own behavior to date doesn't provide enough ammunition) and will be against any tax plan he proposes anyway.

Certainly I don't believe a word of his comments about his wealth, and whether he knows he is lying or it is some sort of creeping dementia, I don't know.
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:27 am
  #7582  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I guess I am just curious what is it that people expect to learn from his tax returns when I read people have the rather odd viewpoint that his tax returns will show for example what loans he has received from Russia etc., or the strange idea that someone with his wealth that (a) his wealth would be shown on his tax returns (b) that his personal tax returns would show overall what he is making or losing , as much of what he does will be through his various corporations.

My impression is that those clamoring the loudest for his tax returns are just looking for something else create negative publicity against Trump ( as if his own behavior to date doesn't provide enough ammunition) and will be against any tax plan he proposes anyway.

Certainly I don't believe a word of his comments about his wealth, and whether he knows he is lying or it is some sort of creeping dementia, I don't know.
I've given you two very specific examples of why his tax returns would be useful to be in the public domain. If you choose to ignore those reasons rather than discussing them, then there is little hope of rational debate with you. But I think many on here knew that already.

His 1995 return - partially leaked by the NY Times - shows a loss of $909,459,915 so I don't buy this argument that his personal tax returns won't show anything of interest about what he is making or losing.
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:31 am
  #7583  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
It's called transparency, something you'd expect a president who claims he's draining the swamp to be all for. For example, candidate Trump said he wanted to abolish the Alternative Minimum Tax. How much, if any, would Trump likely benefit from such an abolition?

Anyway, it seems the Democrats are going to stall on tax reform unless and until Trump releases his returns. Good for them.

"Democrats have seized on that, uniting around a pledge not to cooperate on any tax code rewrite unless they know specifically how that revision would benefit the billionaire president and his family."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/17/u...aul-trump.html
I assume the Democrats will fight Trump on any tax proposal he will make, just as the Republicans obstructed Obama, whether he submits his returns or not. I am sickened by both parties.

Almost any tax reform he will propose, judging from the various comment he has made on taxes, he will benefit from. So why go through all the time on the issue ? So the idea is no tax reform because he may benefit from it ?

I don't think Democrats or Republicans will cooperate to make significant reforms, nor does Trump have any depth of vision to make fundamental reforms. ,
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:32 am
  #7584  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I assume the Democrats will fight Trump on any tax proposal he will make, just as the Republicans obstructed Obama, whether he submits his returns or not. I am sickened by both parties.

Almost any tax reform he will propose, judging from the various comment he has made on taxes, he will benefit from. So why go through all the time on the issue ? So the idea is no tax reform because he may benefit from it ?

I don't think Democrats or Republicans will cooperate to make significant reforms, nor does Trump have any depth of vision to make fundamental reforms. ,
It's called transparency and is the reason why every president (and presidential candidate) since Nixon has released their tax returns. Not sure why you're resistant to that concept and prefer to play the "both sides do it" card.

"Without the alternative minimum tax, Donald Trump would have paid a lower tax rate in 2005 than the poorest half of Americans — just 3.48 percent — despite income of more than $150 million. Trump wants to abolish the AMT. Now we know why," said Americans for Tax Fairness Executive Director Frank Clemente."

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...nts-to-abolish

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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:32 am
  #7585  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
I've given you two very specific examples of why his tax returns would be useful to be in the public domain. If you choose to ignore those reasons rather than discussing them, then there is little hope of rational debate with you. But I think many on here knew that already.

His 1995 return - partially leaked - shows a loss of $909,459,915 so I don't buy this argument that his personal tax returns won't show what he is making or losing.
That year he paid something like 35 million in minimum alternative tax....so Morpeth should add 2 and 2 and come up with the fact that Trump wants to eliminate that tax..part of his tax reform...that will massively benefit him.

No doubt his more current returns would open up a boat load of concerns.
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:41 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
That year he paid something like 35 million in minimum alternative tax....so Morpeth should add 2 and 2 and come up with the fact that Trump wants to eliminate that tax..part of his tax reform...that will massively benefit him.
Actually he paid zero tax in 1995. It was his more recent 2005 tax return that shows he paid $35m in AMT (and now wants to abolish it).

It is indeed odd that morpeth is against transparency in government.

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
No doubt his more current returns would open up a boat load of concerns.
Most probably.

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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:44 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
I've given you two very specific examples of why his tax returns would be useful to be in the public domain. If you choose to ignore those reasons rather than discussing them, then there is little hope of rational debate with you. But I think many on here knew that already.

His 1995 return - partially leaked by the NY Times - shows a loss of $909,459,915 so I don't buy this argument that his personal tax returns won't show anything of interest about what he is making or losing.
Well I guess then what is the interest on how much he is making ? And why on earth would he structure his affairs not using corporations and other structures to reduce his personal taxes ? I think it is obvious he doesn't operate as a sole proprietorship.

You mentioned the alternative income tax, if he seeks to abolish that or reduce income taxes overall he will benefit- and he has already stated ( incredibly actually bragging about it) that he has aggressively used the tax code to reduce the taxes he paid. So let us say his tax returns show he paid less taxes using the regulations that are in place- so would that mean the alternative minimum tax shouldn't be abolished because he might benefit from that ?

So he lost money and followed the rules which allowed him to vary that loss forwards against future taxes, Wouldn't anyone do that ? (I think the bigger issue is whether he truly had the cost basis that justified that loss- I would be more curious as subsequent amendments from dealing with they IRS).
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:48 am
  #7588  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I guess I am just curious what is it that people expect to learn from his tax returns when I read people have the rather odd viewpoint that his tax returns will show for example what loans he has received from Russia etc., or the strange idea that someone with his wealth that (a) his wealth would be shown on his tax returns (b) that his personal tax returns would show overall what he is making or losing , as much of what he does will be through his various corporations.

My impression is that those clamoring the loudest for his tax returns are just looking for something else create negative publicity against Trump ( as if his own behavior to date doesn't provide enough ammunition) and will be against any tax plan he proposes anyway.

Certainly I don't believe a word of his comments about his wealth, and whether he knows he is lying or it is some sort of creeping dementia, I don't know.
I don't know anything about US tax returns and what they show or don't show other than what I have read on here. However when he was first 'encouraged' to release them he said he couldn't as they were being audited. The IRS confirmed he was incorrect and that even if he were being audited he could still release them. He still refused. He has repeatedly been asked to release them and has ignored the requests. Now he's saying the election is over, everyone should get over it. It sounds to a complete outsider that he's trying to hide something. If there's nothing to see why not release them? What's the big deal about showing them?
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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:51 am
  #7589  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Well I guess then what is the interest on how much he is making ? And why on earth would he structure his affairs not using corporations and other structures to reduce his personal taxes ? I think it is obvious he doesn't operate as a sole proprietorship.

You mentioned the alternative income tax, if he seeks to abolish that or reduce income taxes overall he will benefit- and he has already stated ( incredibly actually bragging about it) that he has aggressively used the tax code to reduce the taxes he paid. So let us say his tax returns show he paid less taxes using the regulations that are in place- so would that mean the alternative minimum tax shouldn't be abolished because he might benefit from that ?

So he lost money and followed the rules which allowed him to vary that loss forwards against future taxes, Wouldn't anyone do that ? (I think the bigger issue is whether he truly had the cost basis that justified that loss- I would be more curious as subsequent amendments from dealing with they IRS).
I have never criticised him for minimising taxes so that is a strawman on your part. Nor have I said whether the AMT should or shouldn't be abolished. So that is another strawman on your part. I am merely all for transparency in government and that is why the person who will sign any law changing taxes should disclose his own returns. Your bluster on this is becoming increasingly "peculiar".

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Old Apr 19th 2017, 12:54 am
  #7590  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Actually he paid zero tax in 1995. It was his more recent 2005 tax return that shows he paid $35m in AMT (and now wants to abolish it).

It is indeed odd that morpeth is against transparency in government.
First, I was unaware he was in government at that time.

Second, is here any disagreement that he hasn't used the tax code to his maximum advantage ?

Third, almost any reduction in taxes or elimination of features such as minimum tax will benefit him. So what is a President to do-if abolishing the alternative minimum tax, or reducing the corporate income tax is something good, then a President shouldnt do so because he would benefit ?
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