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President Trump

President Trump

Old Oct 29th 2020, 5:10 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Anian View Post
But anyone with a basic historical knowledge would know that a huge portion of those who died were the ones doing the threatening, and an even bigger portion were already against democracy in their own countries before and after the war. Next time just be vague and don't use a specific number, and then we can all assume that you are only talking about the democratic allies, who it was true for.
60 million people died. I never said that they were our enemies or allies. The fact remains that 60 million died as a result and you you insult them by your nitpicking.
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Old Oct 29th 2020, 5:15 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
I see what you are getting at, but didn’t a very large proportion of them die because Nazi Germany first attacked Poland, and then attacked the USSR? Neither of these two countries was really a democracy in that period, although both the USSR and Poland had elements of democratic process in their political systems.

So in what sense did Polish and Soviet soldiers and civilians die because democracy was threatened? They died because their territories were invaded by a ruthless enemy.
Poland was free country which is why Britain and France came to its defence. The 60 million died as a result of the start of the conflict. It is disingenuous and insulting to all who died to suggest it was a result of countries invaded. Britain was never invaded!!!!!
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Old Oct 29th 2020, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
A couple of things.... Jews were also Germans, French, Russians, Americans and other nationalities when they died. Jews are specifically referred to in the number of deaths because their religion was especially persecuted by the Nazis, but a large number of soldiers and civilians were Christian too.

WW2 wasn't about saving democracy, it was about stopping an organisation intent on ethnic-cleansing a particular religion from the whole of Europe, initially by blaming them for the world's problems. And democracy wasn't the end result for millions after the war who were stuck on the Russian side of the Berlin Wall, or within Eastern Europe, and those in Western Europe were no less and no more democratic than before.
I would like to see evidence that supports that claim.
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Old Oct 29th 2020, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
Poland was free country which is why Britain and France came to its defence. The 60 million died as a result of the start of the conflict. It is disingenuous and insulting to all who died to suggest it was a result of countries invaded. Britain was never invaded!!!!!
Poland was not really a democracy in 1939, I’d contend. Maybe you disagree? As for “disingenuous and insulting,” give it a rest and calm down. It really isn’t necessary to get into a fight with everyone on BE! Poland was invaded by Germany, was what I was saying.
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Old Oct 29th 2020, 5:42 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
I think you need a history lesson! War was declared on Germany by Britain and France because a free and sovereign country was invaded and Britain and France were defending them.. Ethnic cleansing didn't even exist then other than in Germany itself. Subsequently, with the defeat of Germany democracy was retained in Europe.
Why? If Joe Bloggs can blame the EU because that's what he believes, I can make any claim I like But you may want to read my response below, and do your own research...

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
I would like to see evidence that supports that claim.
Hitler's Prophecy.
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Old Oct 29th 2020, 5:42 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
I think you need a history lesson! War was declared on Germany by Britain and France because a free and sovereign country was invaded and Britain and France were defending them.. Ethnic cleansing didn't even exist then other than in Germany itself. Subsequently, with the defeat of Germany democracy was retained in Europe.
Over all you are seeing this from a very myopic British lens. democracy was retained in a part of Europe, a fairly specific, (mostlyish) North-Western part. East not so much, large parts of the South not so either. Asia not so, either. Even for the parts that did retain it, you have to stipulate that it was "Europe" that kept it, as the lands under control of those countries you celebrate for their democracy were far from democratic for the vast majority of their ruled citizens. British and French rule was more of an oligarchy in terms of democracy, with votes for some, and no votes for most. The irony, is that the "victory" for France and Britain did in a span of just a few years, lead to the start of national self-determination and democracy, that process lasted for several decades, and can arguable be said to be continuing today. The spread of national self-determination and democracy was a non intended consequence of winning the war, not a war aim.
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Old Oct 29th 2020, 11:15 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
The war wasn't specifically about stopping an organisation intent on ethnic-cleansing a particular religion from the whole of Europe (though that of course would have been a damned good reason for doing so). It was to prevent two toxic regimes intent on world domination by conquest from achieving their objectives.
That's the second time this week I've agreed with you.
Countries entered the war, against the axis, to halt the expansionist plans/actions, democracy's salvation and the halt of ethnic cleansing were just a by-product. Charles Coughlin in the US, Moseley in the UK and the Catholic church all had anti-semitic followers during Hitler's time, it wasn't a uniquely German trait.
Qualified to speak cos I did a bit of history stuff at school...
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Old Oct 30th 2020, 2:15 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Nothing about Trump today then.
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Old Oct 30th 2020, 2:46 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by RICH View Post
Nothing about Trump today then.



https://fb.watch/1ras2PcpVZ/

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Old Oct 30th 2020, 3:24 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by RICH View Post
Nothing about Trump today then.
Pandemic, what pandemic?

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/politi...n-crowds-views
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Old Oct 30th 2020, 3:57 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
That took me to my fb home page .

eta it worked on my laptop. Point taken

Last edited by RICH; Oct 30th 2020 at 5:00 am.
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Old Oct 30th 2020, 7:22 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Poland was not really a democracy in 1939, I’d contend. Maybe you disagree? As for “disingenuous and insulting,” give it a rest and calm down. It really isn’t necessary to get into a fight with everyone on BE! Poland was invaded by Germany, was what I was saying.
Not getting excited at all. Of course Poland was invaded by Germany but why was war declared by France and Britain on Germany. I'll save you the trouble, it was to defend the freedom of Poland. This all led to a wider conflict in which the 60 million died. It was to defend democracy. As for "not really a democracy" What sort of double speak is that?
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Old Oct 30th 2020, 7:53 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Over all you are seeing this from a very myopic British lens. democracy was retained in a part of Europe, a fairly specific, (mostlyish) North-Western part. East not so much, large parts of the South not so either. Asia not so, either. Even for the parts that did retain it, you have to stipulate that it was "Europe" that kept it, as the lands under control of those countries you celebrate for their democracy were far from democratic for the vast majority of their ruled citizens. British and French rule was more of an oligarchy in terms of democracy, with votes for some, and no votes for most. The irony, is that the "victory" for France and Britain did in a span of just a few years, lead to the start of national self-determination and democracy, that process lasted for several decades, and can arguable be said to be continuing today. The spread of national self-determination and democracy was a non intended consequence of winning the war, not a war aim.
Myopia isn't confined to me!! I never even mentioned Asia, simply Europe. I did stipulate Europe! As for a war aim: The aim was to come to the defence of a free country. To stop Germany from taking freedom of a sovereign country. That it then took several decades to come to fruition is another issue!!!!
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Old Oct 30th 2020, 8:32 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by KJMW View Post
Myopia isn't confined to me!! I never even mentioned Asia, simply Europe. I did stipulate Europe! As for a war aim: The aim was to come to the defence of a free country. To stop Germany from taking freedom of a sovereign country. That it then took several decades to come to fruition is another issue!!!!
You only get to 60 million dead if you include Japanese and Chinese deaths, so I don't see how you can say you excluded Asia.
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Old Oct 30th 2020, 8:34 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Meanwhile, in Trump-related news, Paulry should really love this one - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...ni-case-433610

Florida businessman pleads guilty in fraud case involving Giuliani associates

This isn't just some NY Post story, this is an actual guilty plea relating to fraud in the election, involving Giuliani. Go figure ...
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