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President Trump

President Trump

Old Sep 16th 2020, 3:09 pm
  #30766  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
Good question. "Secular" is usually taken to mean something like denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis - I'm not quite sure how that is not descriptive of the position LiW espoused. Morality exists beyond the boundaries of religious philosophy. Indeed, the fact of the consistent and widespread adoption of the so-called "golden rule" by many religions, independent of each other and at various points in human existence, is a very strong indicator that it has more to do with a more fundamental, secular, morality than with any religion. But so many religionists, of so many different faiths, all try to claim it as somehow "their" unique philosophy.

According to Paulry, I'm an atheist and not secular at all.

Can anyone find a dictionary in video form please?
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 3:11 pm
  #30767  
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Default Re: President Trump

Eh. Trump will probably win again. The American left and Democrats have gone insane this year. BLM is a perfect example and you see it on here. People acting as if black people are going about their daily business trembling in fear of society or the police. LOL. It's not as if the black men shot by the American police were innocents. But black men do commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Chicken and egg, eh? Some of you will want to blame it on the fake bogeyman of racism because it's an easy answer for the limited mind to grasp and to deceive themselves into believing that if only we can fix this one little problem then everything will become just fine and dandy!

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Old Sep 16th 2020, 3:13 pm
  #30768  
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Default Re: President Trump

It's not as if the black men shot by the American police were innocents.
I'd love for you to tell me what Breanna Taylor was doing wrong before the cops busted into the wrong house and shot her dead.

You're deluded.

But black men do commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Chicken and egg, eh?
Care to provide a source for that little nugget of information?
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 3:18 pm
  #30769  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by DXBtoDOH View Post
Eh. Trump will probably win again. The American left and Democrats have gone insane this year. BLM is a perfect example and you see it on here. People acting as if black people are going about their daily business trembling in fear of society or the police. LOL. It's not as if the black men shot by the American police were innocents. But black men do commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Chicken and egg, eh? Some of you will want to blame it on the fake bogeyman of racism because it's an easy answer for the limited mind to grasp and to deceive themselves into believing that if only we can fix this one little problem then everything will become just fine and dandy!

Have you met Paulry and Boiler? The three of you will need a room.
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 4:05 pm
  #30770  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Have you met Paulry and Boiler? The three of you will need a room.
And loads of towels.

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Old Sep 16th 2020, 5:36 pm
  #30771  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
We need a Christian to explain it, but I will give it my good intention best shot.
god can still be infallible because god did not change his mind, a set of new circumstances was created, which led god to create a new covenant with the Jewish people (in fact with Christians as Jewish people mostly do not recognize Jesus as the messiah).Original sin is now gone, so god doesnt need to be so mean to people. This could reasonably said to all be in gods plan for humanity (why that is his plan - I have no idea)
I did some additional reading about this today (amazing how the Coronavirus has freed up vast amounts of time for random research!). Looks like your 'covenant' idea is well supported. This article - though Catholic in origin - seems pretty mainstream within the Christian sphere. https://www.schooloffaith.com/blog/o...ament-violence .

The essence for the justification of death (and violence in general) in the OT seems to be that the death of certain 'groups' is considered a lesser of two evils. Further, a distinction between 'physical' death vs 'spiritual' death is made. In regards to the killing of not only men, but also women and children, it says "In allowing as opposed to directly intending their deaths, God seems to be making a point.  The worst thing one can face is spiritual death, not mere physical death.  Better for all of the Canaanites to die, for example, than for the Israelites to live side by side with them and have all or most of both groups go to hell when the Israelites embraced their false gods. " That's pretty telling when it comes to priorities! The general theme of the "Israelites' being a 'chosen people' also seems a bit counter to general notions that 'all men (people) are created equal' (I'm sure this is used by 'religious' people to justify a lot of today's discrimination). But that's a whole other discussion. This statement also suggests that physical death is not such a big deal (compared to spiritual death) - "As Jesus would later affirm, “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Mt. 10:28; cf. 1 Cor. 5:5)" ... and is presumably used to justify situations like the death penalty.

How people can take this seriously is beyond me, but since we are in a Trump thread, I will leave it at that!


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Old Sep 16th 2020, 5:42 pm
  #30772  
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Default Re: President Trump

Also bear in mind that the Bible only really defines living as breathing, so unborn children are not yet living and therefore can't be killed. There is even a part of the Bible that describes how to induce an abortion if the husband suspects the child isn't his.
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 5:48 pm
  #30773  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I did some additional reading about this today (amazing how the Coronavirus has freed up vast amounts of time for random research!). Looks like your 'covenant' idea is well supported. This article - though Catholic in origin - seems pretty mainstream within the Christian sphere. https://www.schooloffaith.com/blog/o...ament-violence .

The essence for the justification of death (and violence in general) in the OT seems to be that the death of certain 'groups' is considered a lesser of two evils. Further, a distinction between 'physical' death vs 'spiritual' death is made. In regards to the killing of not only men, but also women and children, it says "In allowing as opposed to directly intending their deaths, God seems to be making a point.  The worst thing one can face is spiritual death, not mere physical death.  Better for all of the Canaanites to die, for example, than for the Israelites to live side by side with them and have all or most of both groups go to hell when the Israelites embraced their false gods. " That's pretty telling when it comes to priorities! The general theme of the "Israelites' being a 'chosen people' also seems a bit counter to general notions that 'all men (people) are created equal' (I'm sure this is used by 'religious' people to justify a lot of today's discrimination). But that's a whole other discussion. This statement also suggests that physical death is not such a big deal (compared to spiritual death) - "As Jesus would later affirm, “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Mt. 10:28; cf. 1 Cor. 5:5)" ... and is presumably used to justify situations like the death penalty.

How people can take this seriously is beyond me, but since we are in a Trump thread, I will leave it at that!
This also explains how people like Mother Teresa were able to justify their almost total lack of care of those under her care, though it does not explain why so many others were willing to see her as a living saint from a secular or non-religious point of view.

Mythology is so powerful, particularly with those that do not question and are deferential to authorities of any kind.
(Many Christians are not in this group, they do question, they do self-reflect, they tend not to be the extreme Evangelical end of things)

Last edited by kimilseung; Sep 16th 2020 at 5:51 pm.
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 5:59 pm
  #30774  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

The AME response to one of Trump's inflammatory and deceptive ads.

https://t.e2ma.net/webview/xu3whd/e7...vfgXHOhNF8Y-c4

The ad in question.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/wa...st-91733573936

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Old Sep 16th 2020, 6:18 pm
  #30775  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
The AME response to one of Trump's inflammatory and deceptive ads.

https://t.e2ma.net/webview/xu3whd/e7...vfgXHOhNF8Y-c4

The ad in question.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/wa...st-91733573936
Wow! Not just racist, but inflammatory.
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 8:37 pm
  #30776  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
You are going to have to explain to us how you use the word secular, because your use appears to be a unique unicorn use.
No explanations ...or unicorns needed here. Lioninwinter believes that no deities exist - unless she's going to suddenly come out and pretend that she believes in God.
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 8:52 pm
  #30777  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
This is clearly and demonstrably untrue. While not self-supporting (like any mammalian, most avian and some reptilian juveniles) a newborn infant human can be sustained with bottle-fed formula. A severely premature infant in a NICU is in fact less likely to "need" its mother to survive than one carried to term and delivered in the traditional way. If a newborn infant needed its mother - specifically its mother, as you claimed - then infants whose mother died in childbirth would be in significant trouble, wouldn't they? Belief doesn't really come into this, it's a matter of clearly evident fact. Wetnurses have been a thing for centuries - millennia, even. Farmers have understood for about as long that infant animals can be raised by a surrogate animal, or hand-reared by the farmer: that's not even the same species, let alone the creature's own mother, doing the sustaining.

Since you have this fundamental piece of your argument so demonstrably wrong, it rather makes the rest of your position, built on this house of cards, somewhat untenable, doesn't it?
No, the fundamental piece of my argument is the unborn child is a living human from the time that the spark of life commences, and within a quite a short period of time quickly takes on the physical characteristics of a living human being. Other than that, you have an opinion that supports a justification for ending that spark of human life and I have an opinion that does not support that justification.
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 8:52 pm
  #30778  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
No explanations ...or unicorns needed here. Lioninwinter believes that no deities exist - unless she's going to suddenly come out and pretend that she believes in God.
Err.......I dont know why I bother.....hes got the whole of google to just look up the non Unicorn definition, as he clearly doesn't know
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 8:58 pm
  #30779  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
The AME response to one of Trump's inflammatory and deceptive ads.

https://t.e2ma.net/webview/xu3whd/e7...vfgXHOhNF8Y-c4

The ad in question.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/wa...st-91733573936
Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Wow! Not just racist, but inflammatory.
Clue: MSNBC did not show the add in its entirety
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Old Sep 16th 2020, 9:47 pm
  #30780  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
No explanations ...or unicorns needed here. Lioninwinter believes that no deities exist - unless she's going to suddenly come out and pretend that she believes in God.
Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Err.......I dont know why I bother.....hes got the whole of google to just look up the non Unicorn definition, as he clearly doesn't know
Not sure his google can get rational material, he's probably not allowed it, so I'm going to lend a helping hand.

sec·u·lar
/ˈsekyələr/

adjective
  1. 1.
    denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.
    "secular buildings"
    Similar:
    nonreligious

    lay

    nonchurch

    temporal

    worldly

    earthly

    profane

    unsanctified

    unconsecrated

    unhallowed

    laic

    Opposite:
    holy

    religious

    sacred
  2. 2.
    CHRISTIAN CHURCH
    (of clergy) not subject to or bound by religious rule; not belonging to or living in a monastic or other order.

My bolding, to be extra helpful.
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