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President Trump

President Trump

Old Sep 20th 2016, 2:08 pm
  #1651  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Yeah, because people die from it. When your kid gets killed simply because he's black, that incites huge anger.

Again, compare how minorities fare in the US compared to Europe. Europe has a mere handful of African (or Muslim) descent who achieve much of anything (mainly sports and entertainment). In America, African Americans (and a significant number of Muslims) are plastered across the landscape of prominence. From business leaders to artists to doctors to scientists to TV personalities, actors, journalists, news anchors, to politicians. No comparison.

To me, it suggests racism isn't just an American thing. Weapons addiction is though.
Agreed, racism is a thoroughly international affair.

In the US, there is of course a non-white middle class, while at the same time Black people are greatly overrepresented among the low-income as a percentage of the population. There is clearly entrenched poverty, where the disadvantages compile generation upon generation, so that we have urban ghettos that are almost exclusively African American. The upward mobility from here to the middle classes that you see is, well, not a real opportunity for most because hauling yourself up from the bottom levels of income is a very tall order indeed whatever your race, and because it is combined with race that means in the US that African Americans are overrepresented among those who are forever stuck.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/socia...k-opportunity/


If one looks at "opportunity" for non-white people in predominantly white cultures (which the US will cease to be in a few years with respect to population percentages anyway), you may well be right when it comes to Europe, I honestly don't know.

I also agree on the addiction to weapons and the primitive, violent, fearful responses to an astonishing range of emotions and events.

It's also worth considering the now more accepted thesis that race is nothing more than a social construct, "without biological meaning". It serves our social wishes and insecurities, a socially and politically charged way of artificially grouping certain aspects of simple genetic diversity.

Race Is a Social Construct, Scientists Argue - Scientific American

When I say the US is obsessed with race, I don't mean only the desperately poor Black population, or racism in the common negative sense. We are asked about our race all the time, categorized and sorted on it again and again - for college scholarships, for leadership positions, on and on and on. It leads to such thinking as "well now we have an African American police chief in Chicago, so the racist shootings will stop." They don't, of course.
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 3:39 pm
  #1652  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Well, you don't realise it. You're too fixated on ideology to see it. It's like religion. Like denying evolution, even though it's a proven fact.
Some off them can't help ami , there still walking on the knuckles
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 6:00 pm
  #1653  
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Default Re: President Trump

We were recently talking about how a well trained & armed individual can save a bad situation.

Here's a good example of how a properly trained & armed good man can put a quick stop to a bad guy & why gun free zones are such a bad idea.

Man Who Shot Crossroads Mall Terrorist Is USPSA Competitor, 3-Gun Shooter – Bearing Arms

Here's a more detailed example of what constitutes good training. Try to ignore the political commentary (if you prefer) but listen to the relevant comments about what the good guy is doing.

The commentary misses one VERY important part of the action though.

Check at about 0.50 & 13.54 & note how after he's dropped the bad guy, he immediately puts his back to the concrete pillar to ensure he can't be attacked from behind & then looks around for other threats that he might have to deal with.

Also bear in mind that in such situations, no matter if the good guy is a cop, a civilian or military etc, things happen very quickly indeed & there's rarely time to stop & think. You either act or react immediately or you or someone else is very possibly going to die.

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Old Sep 20th 2016, 6:26 pm
  #1654  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
We were recently talking about how a well trained & armed individual can save a bad situation.

Here's a good example of how a properly trained & armed good man can put a quick stop to a bad guy & why gun free zones are such a bad idea.

Oh come on. The guy was hardly a civilian onlooker, was he now? He is a former police chief and current part-time volunteer police officer. This does not make a convincing argument for or against civilian gun ownership; conversely, it underlines that only well trained military or law enforcement personnel are even slightly likely to have the presence of mind and the situational awareness to be able to deal with an incident like this without endangering everyone else around them. How many other gun-owners were in the mall, but too frightened or overwhelmed to take any decisive action whatsoever?

What's your point?
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 6:30 pm
  #1655  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
Oh come on. The guy was hardly a civilian onlooker, was he now? He is a former police chief and current part-time volunteer police officer. This does not make a convincing argument for or against civilian gun ownership; conversely, it underlines that only well trained military or law enforcement personnel are even slightly likely to have the presence of mind and the situational awareness to be able to deal with an incident like this without endangering everyone else around them. How many other gun-owners were in the mall, but too frightened or overwhelmed to take any decisive action whatsoever?

What's your point?
Ummm; You might like to re-read my previous posts where I made reference to good training being the key to good, safe & effective firearm handling.
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 6:50 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
Oh come on. The guy was hardly a civilian onlooker, was he now? He is a former police chief and current part-time volunteer police officer. This does not make a convincing argument for or against civilian gun ownership; conversely, it underlines that only well trained military or law enforcement personnel are even slightly likely to have the presence of mind and the situational awareness to be able to deal with an incident like this without endangering everyone else around them. How many other gun-owners were in the mall, but too frightened or overwhelmed to take any decisive action whatsoever?

What's your point?
Sorry; I missed that bit........ & would disagree with the comment.

There are PLENTY of civilians in many parts of the world that are trained to that level....... & once trained, you never forget.

I'm an old fart of 60 now but am still very 'situationally aware' all the time. Even now, I always make a point of only ever sitting with my back to a wall in any public place & watching everyone who comes near me.

It's like riding a bicycle...... once you know how, you never forget.
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 7:03 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Sorry; I missed that bit........ & would disagree with the comment.

There are PLENTY of civilians in many parts of the world that are trained to that level....... & once trained, you never forget.

I'm an old fart of 60 now but am still very 'situationally aware' all the time. Even now, I always make a point of only ever sitting with my back to a wall in any public place & watching everyone who comes near me.

It's like riding a bicycle...... once you know how, you never forget.
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 8:06 pm
  #1658  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Sorry; I missed that bit........ & would disagree with the comment.

There are PLENTY of civilians in many parts of the world that are trained to that level....... & once trained, you never forget.

I'm an old fart of 60 now but am still very 'situationally aware' all the time. Even now, I always make a point of only ever sitting with my back to a wall in any public place & watching everyone who comes near me.

It's like riding a bicycle...... once you know how, you never forget.
I'm sure there are many people in many parts of the world with good situational awareness, but I strongly suspect that the majority of gun-owning American citizens are not in that group of well-trained civilians.

Your positions on this issue seem to be somewhat mutually contradictory: on the one hand, you're happy to acknowledge that "good guy with a gun" is an unrealistic argument unless that good guy has significant training, either in civilian, law enforcement or military context. On the other hand, you seem to be suggesting that any kind of restrictions on the rights of anybody to carry a firearm anywhere would be detrimental to public safety. Which of those is actually your opinion? And which is one of your "many people are saying" weasel statements?
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 8:42 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
I'm sure there are many people in many parts of the world with good situational awareness, but I strongly suspect that the majority of gun-owning American citizens are not in that group of well-trained civilians.

Your positions on this issue seem to be somewhat mutually contradictory: on the one hand, you're happy to acknowledge that "good guy with a gun" is an unrealistic argument unless that good guy has significant training, either in civilian, law enforcement or military context. On the other hand, you seem to be suggesting that any kind of restrictions on the rights of anybody to carry a firearm anywhere would be detrimental to public safety. Which of those is actually your opinion? And which is one of your "many people are saying" weasel statements?
Not at all contradictory.

My own personal view is that a good guy with a gun is better than no good guy with a gun & that gun free zones are nothing more than an open invitation to the bad guys but a well trained good guy with a gun is MUCH better than just a good guy with a gun.

The point I've been repeatedly trying to make about the 2nd, isn't necessarily my personal view but rather the view of a large part of the American firearm owning citizens....... & I've repeatedly made that perfectly clear.

Are most US firearm owners situationally aware or well trained? - Hell no. But that's a different subject entirely.

Not weasel statements at all & only a fidiot would think so......... They are entirely accurate & well informed.

Last edited by mfesharne; Sep 20th 2016 at 9:04 pm.
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 9:53 pm
  #1660  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Even now, I always make a point of only ever sitting with my back to a wall in any public place & watching everyone who comes near me.
I knew it.

You're paranoid.
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 10:47 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I knew it.

You're paranoid.
Nope. Hazard avoidance trained

Last edited by paulry; Sep 20th 2016 at 10:49 pm.
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Old Sep 20th 2016, 11:48 pm
  #1662  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne: Even now, I always make a point of only ever sitting with my back to a wall in any public place & watching everyone who comes near me.
Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
I knew it. You're paranoid.
Nope. mfesharne has probably been in countries and places where it's only sensible to do what he does. So have I and so do I. I also walk in the middle of the road late at night, in places I'm not entirely certain about. Caution is not the same as paranoia.
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Old Sep 21st 2016, 12:08 am
  #1663  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

It's conversations like this, where this sort of behaviour is seriously proposed as a remedy and as a way of life, that remind me of why I want to leave this country
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Old Sep 21st 2016, 12:10 am
  #1664  
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Default Re: President Trump

This whole Trump and his appeal to his supporters ...... farce reveals a lot about the country, and it's not flattering.
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Old Sep 21st 2016, 12:42 am
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by johnwoo View Post
This whole Trump and his appeal to his supporters ...... farce reveals a lot about the country, and it's not flattering.
Trump is a counter-balance to the way that the US has been run this past couple of decades and unless that changes, don't expect things to get better.
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