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President Trump

President Trump

Old Dec 9th 2015, 6:26 pm
  #151  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
OK, so Lindsey Graham doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of the nomination, but I was somewhat comforted by a comment that he made yesterday, reported on radio here. Words to the effect that he would rather the Republicans lose the election than that Donald Trump become president.
Speaking of Senator Graham, did you see the clip of him having a chat with Carter and Dunford regarding Assad?

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Old Dec 9th 2015, 7:45 pm
  #152  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Yes. Rather goes against amideislas assertion that "you'll find far more successful entrepreneurs, scientists, medical professionals, and politicians of colour in the US than in Europe".
That's nice, but other than proximity, what does the UK have to do with Europe? Despite Brits aversion from associating with the US, Britain is culturally, politically, and economically far more akin to America than any other EU member state. That explains a lot about their inability to accept the EU as a governing body over it.

But back to the point. Europeans are far less willing to hire or promote "foreigners", especially those of "colour". Please compare the number of "persons of colour" in Europe (a similar population to the US) holding any positions of authority, prominence, notoriety, or success to those who do in the US. I did this comparison in another argument, and frankly, there's no comparison at all. If you rely on Wikipedia alone, it's many many orders of magnitude difference. The number of "persons of colour" who succeed in the US is monumental by comparison. And that explains why so many blacks over here would jump at any chance to get a green card, despite the US being perceived as the "most racist country on the planet".

Racism exists everywhere. In the US, it's a condition which is for the most part, unacceptable, both under the law, and in social circles, and expectably, US media exploits that to the maximum. and frankly, the results are a testament to America's racial equality. In Europe, it's just not considered "racism". "People of colour" just aren't "qualified", unless they can dance, sing, or play football. By European standards, that's not "racism", but simply "the way it is".

No doubt Jesse Jackson would be having a heart attack, and the NAACP would be swamped with lawsuit filings, but we don't have either of those here, so... status quo. Besides, like so many other countries, we don't have "racism". That's an "American" thing, as seen on TV, in the papers, and all over the internet. Who's to argue with that?

This is not so far from the Trump insistence on proving how "under seige" the US is.

But again, look at the stats. The threats to the US are fractional when compared to Europe. The Beeb recently aired a report about the number of "serious" terrorist investigations taking place on both sides of the Atlantic.

In the US, there are currently nearly 1000 investigations and surveillance activities conducted by the CIA and FBI domestically, whereas in Europe, the official figure is over 12,000. And most believe that's highly under reported by European intelligence agencies. The NSA is highly publicised as the most "invasive" surveillance agency in the world, but European governments routinely, legally spy on it's population as a matter of policy, primarily for tax collection goals, but the terrorist rationale has made it all far more justifiable.

It's an election year. You might remember how Miliband told us how desperate the UK economy was. Unfortunately, he pushed that message at a time when the UK economy had only good news to offer. And it killed him. But the "polls" NEVER reflected that. Up till the election, Miliband had a real shot (in the polls). Surprise!

It's a long time 'till November. Trump (and most republicans) will likely make the same mistake that Miliband made: By trying to spread fear through bullshit - relying on the "polls" to feed their egos, claiming the US is completely desperate, without acknowledging what good shape it's in when compared to the rest of the world.

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 9th 2015 at 8:55 pm. Reason: Speeling polises
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Old Dec 9th 2015, 8:47 pm
  #153  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
That's nice, but other than proximity, what does the UK have to do with Europe? Despite Brits aversion from associating with the US, Britain is culturally, politically, and economically far more akin to America than any other EU member state. That explains a lot about their inability to accept the EU as a governing body over it.

But back to the point. Europeans are far less willing to hire or promote "foreigners", especially those of "colour". Please compare the number of "persons of colour" holding any positions of authority, prominence, notoriety, or success in Europe (a similar population to the US) to those who do in the US. I did this comparison in another argument, and frankly, there's no comparison at all. If you rely on Wikipedia alone, it's many many orders of magnitude difference. The number of "persons of colour" who succeed in the US is monumental by comparison. And that explains why so many blacks over here would jump at any chance to get a green card, despite the US being perceived as the "most racist country on the planet".

Racism exists everywhere. In the US, it's a condition which is for the most part, unacceptable, both under the law, and in social circles, and the results are a testament to that. In Europe, it's just not considered "racism". "People of colour" just aren't "qualified", unless they can dance, sing, or play football. By European standards, that's not "racism", but simply "the way it is".

No doubt Jesse Jackson would be having a heart attack, and the NAACP would be swamped with lawsuit filings, but we don't have either of those here, so... status quo. Besides, like so many other countries, we don't have "racism". That's an "American" thing, as seen on TV, in the papers, and all over the internet. Who's to argue with that?

This is not so far from the Trump insistence on proving how "under seige" the US is.

But again, look at the stats. The threats to the US are fractional when compared to Europe. The Beeb recently aired a report about the number of "serious" terrorist investigations taking place on both sides of the Atlantic.

In the US, there are currently nearly 1000 investigations and surveillance activities conducted by the CIA and FBI domestically, whereas in Europe, the official figure is over 12,000. And most believe that's highly under reported by European intelligence agencies.

It's an election year. You might remember how Miliband told us how desperate the UK economy was. Unfortunately, he pushed that message at a time when the UK economy had only good news to offer. And it killed him.

It's a long time 'till November. Trump will likely make the same mistake that Miliband made: By trying to spread fear through bullshit, claiming the US is completely desperate, without acknowledging what good shape it's in when compared to the rest of the world.
I remember that previous discussion, and you make as little sense now as you did then.

Wikipedia, to use your favoured method of comparison, is very heavily biased towards English (read: American) content. There are many fewer Europeans of note, of any colour, than Americans in Wikipedia.

Add to that the point raised again in this thread, that the history of non-white population movement into Europe and the US is vastly different, both in terms of time and of ethnic origin, and there is absolutely no surprise that there are more Wikipedia entries for prominent non-white people in the US than there are in the EU. A significant number of non-white Europeans are first, second or third-generation citizens, whose families arrived more or less within living memory following whatever military, cultural or economic disaster befell their original place of origin. Many more non-white Americans have been Americans for generations and generations; granted, their ancestors may not have had much in the way of civil rights, but the cultural history of the USA and Western Europe is so completely different that comparisons such as you are trying to make are really meaningless.

And in any case I dispute your assertion. Let's take, as an example, the French cohort of MEPs (chosen at random, largely because Wikipedia has a list with links to individual biographies). Discounting the representatives of the "overseas" constituency (who are from Guadaloupe, New Caledonia and Reunion) there are 8 of a total of 71 representatives who are either first- or second-generation ethnic-minority immigrants: one Vietnamese, four Algerian, one Tajik, one half-Martinican, and one Moroccan-Algerian. Considering the overall ethnic-minority population of France is estimated at around 14%, then 11% representation in the European Parliament is reasonable, I'd say.

Which is not to say, of course, that either Europe or the US is blameless when it comes to racism. But you are setting up rather too many straw men when you claim that "Europeans are far less willing to hire or promote 'foreigners,'" or when you accidentally-on-purpose fail to take into account differences the last two centuries of population movement in Europe and North America.
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Old Dec 9th 2015, 9:50 pm
  #154  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Oakvillian View Post
I remember that previous discussion, and you make as little sense now as you did then.

Wikipedia, to use your favoured method of comparison, is very heavily biased towards English (read: American) content. There are many fewer Europeans of note, of any colour, than Americans in Wikipedia.

Add to that the point raised again in this thread, that the history of non-white population movement into Europe and the US is vastly different, both in terms of time and of ethnic origin, and there is absolutely no surprise that there are more Wikipedia entries for prominent non-white people in the US than there are in the EU. A significant number of non-white Europeans are first, second or third-generation citizens, whose families arrived more or less within living memory following whatever military, cultural or economic disaster befell their original place of origin. Many more non-white Americans have been Americans for generations and generations; granted, their ancestors may not have had much in the way of civil rights, but the cultural history of the USA and Western Europe is so completely different that comparisons such as you are trying to make are really meaningless.

And in any case I dispute your assertion. Let's take, as an example, the French cohort of MEPs (chosen at random, largely because Wikipedia has a list with links to individual biographies). Discounting the representatives of the "overseas" constituency (who are from Guadaloupe, New Caledonia and Reunion) there are 8 of a total of 71 representatives who are either first- or second-generation ethnic-minority immigrants: one Vietnamese, four Algerian, one Tajik, one half-Martinican, and one Moroccan-Algerian. Considering the overall ethnic-minority population of France is estimated at around 14%, then 11% representation in the European Parliament is reasonable, I'd say.

Which is not to say, of course, that either Europe or the US is blameless when it comes to racism. But you are setting up rather too many straw men when you claim that "Europeans are far less willing to hire or promote 'foreigners,'" or when you accidentally-on-purpose fail to take into account differences the last two centuries of population movement in Europe and North America.
Yes, OK.

But statistically, at least (disregarding the daily reality of it), people "of colour" have little chance in Europe. I have a pretty good relationship with a few people working in shops around here who would give their kidneys to get a green card. Why? Simple. Because the opportunities are far better. Despite it being the "most racist country in the planet". But that's a media distinction having little to do with reality on a global scale.

Racism exists everywhere. Even the most racist places are less racist than others. But where would you go if you were black and had a dream... it certainly wouldn't be Europe. Except of course, if your dream were limited to live off the state, which certainly won't make you successful in any measurable way. People of any race want to succeed. Where are your best chances of doing that?
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Old Dec 9th 2015, 10:42 pm
  #155  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Yes, OK.

But statistically, at least (disregarding the daily reality of it), people "of colour" have little chance in Europe. I have a pretty good relationship with a few people working in shops around here who would give their kidneys to get a green card. Why? Simple. Because the opportunities are far better. Despite it being the "most racist country in the planet". But that's a media distinction having little to do with reality on a global scale.

Racism exists everywhere. Even the most racist places are less racist than others. But where would you go if you were black and had a dream... it certainly wouldn't be Europe. Except of course, if your dream were limited to live off the state, which certainly won't make you successful in any measurable way. People of any race want to succeed. Where are your best chances of doing that?
Well if your skin happens to be black and you move to the US, your chances (and those of your children and grandchildren) of being in prison, being convicted of a crime, receiving a harsh sentence, living in poverty, and being violently treated by the police are all significantly higher, proportionately, than if you are white. Some "dream". Tbe fact that there is a small black middle class isn't quite as comforting when looked at from that perspective.

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Old Dec 10th 2015, 6:39 am
  #156  
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Default Re: President Trump

Donald Trump outlines his Muslim strategy

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4654433557001/donald-trump-outlines-his-muslim-strategy/?#sp=show-clips
Interviewer is not a friend of Trump

Last edited by paw339; Dec 10th 2015 at 6:44 am.
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 10:59 am
  #157  
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Default Re: President Trump

Does anyone know how President Obama got around being a muslim himself? In the muslim faith you cannot give it up.the punishment is death. His children therefore are of the muslim faith.(It matters not one jot what his wife is ,as under muslim law she doesn't count) I thought he claimed to have become a Catholic? Has anyone seen him attend a Catholic church?.
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 11:46 am
  #158  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Does anyone know how President Obama got around being a muslim himself? In the muslim faith you cannot give it up.the punishment is death. His children therefore are of the muslim faith.(It matters not one jot what his wife is ,as under muslim law she doesn't count) I thought he claimed to have become a Catholic? Has anyone seen him attend a Catholic church?.
I don't think Hawaii is a hotbed of religion. I read that he did attend church regularly in Chicago (although I suspect that was for political rather than spiritual purposes).
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 1:57 pm
  #159  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Does anyone know how President Obama got around being a muslim himself? In the muslim faith you cannot give it up.the punishment is death. His children therefore are of the muslim faith.(It matters not one jot what his wife is ,as under muslim law she doesn't count) I thought he claimed to have become a Catholic? Has anyone seen him attend a Catholic church?.
Is the claim that he is a Muslim because his father was? Barack senior was raised by a Muslim family in Kenya but converted to Anglicanism. I think his mother was a Catholic, who later married an Indonesian. Barack Jr. did attend a Catholic school.

He loosely identifies as Christian, but I feel it's mostly non-practising.
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 2:35 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Trump Hits New High of 35% Anti-Establishment Surges to 65%

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/firs...-nervous/?_r=1
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 4:06 pm
  #161  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Is the claim that he is a Muslim because his father was? Barack senior was raised by a Muslim family in Kenya but converted to Anglicanism. I think his mother was a Catholic, who later married an Indonesian. Barack Jr. did attend a Catholic school.

He loosely identifies as Christian, but I feel it's mostly non-practising.
I thought he was a lay minister in the Baptist church. Not the snake Baptists, just the regular ones.
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 6:52 pm
  #162  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by caretaker View Post
I thought he was a lay minister in the Baptist church. Not the snake Baptists, just the regular ones.
Couldn't tell you. It's all different flavours of the same shite anyway.
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 7:37 pm
  #163  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Well if your skin happens to be black and you move to the US, your chances (and those of your children and grandchildren) of being in prison, being convicted of a crime, receiving a harsh sentence, living in poverty, and being violently treated by the police are all significantly higher, proportionately, than if you are white. Some "dream". Tbe fact that there is a small black middle class isn't quite as comforting when looked at from that perspective.
Of course the fact that a higher percentage of black people are involved in criminal practices or found guilty of crimes, would have nothing at all to do with it.
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 11:00 pm
  #164  
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Default Re: President Trump

New FBI Crime Figures Confirm: Black Towns Most Dangerous, White Areas Safest - The New Observer

I would only add that this very much reflects my own experiences in the U.S.
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Old Dec 10th 2015, 11:25 pm
  #165  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
New FBI Crime Figures Confirm: Black Towns Most Dangerous, White Areas Safest - The New Observer

I would only add that this very much reflects my own experiences in the U.S.
The New Observer is blocked by my employer as a "known racist site". Not hard to see why if you look around that website.

The strongest correlation with crime is poverty, regardless of race.
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