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President Trump

President Trump

Old Sep 18th 2016, 9:21 pm
  #1591  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Para 1) I agree.... it would but will add the rider of 'long term'

Para 2) As I understand it, it's a tad more complicated than that because different States have different laws & Congress & Senate can be bypassed by things such as Presidential decrees...... & indeed, mag capacity limitations have been tried in the past but were heartily ignored by the vast majority.

Para 3) I agree..... & perhaps Paulry's idea about medication might be involved but there are other issues as well. Just one being that of gun free zones where the vast majority of mass shootings take place.

I've posted links previously but there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest that a good armed man can often prevent such events..... A good example being the Canadian Parliamentary shootings of a few years ago.

Para 4) I agree they should but they don't agree & I have no idea how you address that issue.

Para 5) So do I & I also remember witnessing (and unfortunately still dream about) the results of some of the Rwanda genocide where only one side had any means of defence (let alone firearms)........ And it's events such as that which makes a significant percentage of US gun owners refuse to tolerate any 2nd amendment restriction.

Quite how you address that situation, I have no bloody idea!
Para 4) The persons who stopped the Canadian Parliament shootings were armed Parliamentary security (the Sergeant at Arms, House of Commons Protective Service, and RCMP) personnel. None of them were civilians.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 9:25 pm
  #1592  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Rwanda and the US, there are flights of fantasy and there is total lunatic comparisons.
If there was a scale of 1 to 10 for fantastical excuses for gun ownership you have just scored 12.
Tell that to them not to me...... Oh sorry, you told me earlier you don't have the bollocks for that!

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Old Sep 18th 2016, 9:33 pm
  #1593  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Para 4) The persons who stopped the Canadian Parliament shootings were armed Parliamentary security (the Sergeant at Arms, House of Commons Protective Service, and RCMP) personnel. None of them were civilians.
Where did I suggest otherwise?

But how about properly trained & licenced selected employees fulfill such roles?
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 9:57 pm
  #1594  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
Did you note the comment @4.50 min's ?
Armadillos carry "leprosy"
The film maker said to the woman who stated this " I've never heard off Armadillos carrying leprosy" & she replied "They do ,you look it up"
Not related to her in any way are you ?
Funny you should mention that & a very good example of how one shouldn't dismiss any theory out of hand.

I had no idea until I looked but apparently she may well be right.

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylc...p=mss&ei=UTF-8

Although how much leprosy there is in the US is a different matter? - But I'd also have to look that up as well. lol

Last edited by mfesharne; Sep 18th 2016 at 10:00 pm.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 10:02 pm
  #1595  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Where did I suggest otherwise?

But how about properly trained & licenced selected employees fulfill such roles?
Sorry about that. I misread the bit I was answering. But part of the argument about arming civilians is that they can stop bad guys.

Trained and licensed armed personnel can be useful, but only if they are in the right place at the right time. If an active shooter/attacker gets a hostage, the licensed armed guard can be made to hand over their weapon by threats against the hostage by the attacker.

But I agree, it's better than nothing.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 10:12 pm
  #1596  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Sorry about that. I misread the bit I was answering. But part of the argument about arming civilians is that they can stop bad guys.

Trained and licensed armed personnel can be useful, but only if they are in the right place at the right time. If an active shooter/attacker gets a hostage, the licensed armed guard can be made to hand over their weapon by threats against the hostage by the attacker.

But I agree, it's better than nothing.
Hence my point about those stupid gun free zones which are nothing more than an open invitation to deranged murderers.

Although it cannot be denied there are plenty of examples out there where ordinary law abiding gun owning citizens have stepped in to prevent murders & mass murders.

Always remember that when seconds count the cops are only minutes away..... But generally speaking, 'properly trained' is the key.
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 8:16 am
  #1597  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Tell that to them not to me...... Oh sorry, you told me earlier you don't have the bollocks for that!

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...pspsx8pizn.jpg
Is that the best you can do, thank god I am not with bullet range of you .
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 1:13 pm
  #1598  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
Let's face it, sadly the US is a demoralised mess, and gun violence is just one of the symptoms of that mess.
Dear god we agree on something


I'm sure we disagree on the reasons, but hey, it's a red letter day anyway.
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 1:59 pm
  #1599  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Funny you should mention that & a very good example of how one shouldn't dismiss any theory out of hand.

I had no idea until I looked but apparently she may well be right.

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylc...p=mss&ei=UTF-8

Although how much leprosy there is in the US is a different matter? - But I'd also have to look that up as well. lol
Yes I have to agree ,she may be right as there are cases reported in USA every year, as too Armadillos carrying it ?

But to be honest ,the comment she made was typically one that gets taken as 100% correct , & then builds up out off all proportion
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 2:05 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Interesting

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...nership-survey

Last edited by Ingles; Sep 19th 2016 at 2:12 pm.
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 2:45 pm
  #1601  
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Default Re: President Trump

It always ends up coming back to guns and the 2nd, and I can never understand that.

Legally purchased guns are not at risk, the gun enthusiast will always be able to buy their guns for hunting, self defense, whatever they want them for. I can't buy medicine contianing pseudoephedrine without ID - does that mean they think I am going to use it to cook meth? Of course not, so why is there such a problem with someone requiring an ID for something that can be used to kill someone

Mfesharne, I'm not going to get into another dick measuring contest with you again, but if a person is a voting US citizen (which I am), their opinion matters every bit as much as the gun owners. It doesn't matter if a percentage of them think that minor restrictions on said ownership amount to a valid reason to take up arms against their elected commander-in-chief, the law is the law and voicing opposition to free and unfettered gun ownership is absolutely permitted under the First Amendment (which also protects their right to say the things they do, but not act upon them). They can vote in their interests, we'll vote in ours and whoever wins, wins. But no president is going to repeal the 2nd, so they are just wasting their breath.

Guns are so far down the list of things that need to be taken care of in America anyway, so any president who tried to make taking them away priority number one would find themselves without support from both sides of the divide.

Personally, I don't toe the party line on this one. I don't have a problem legal gun ownership. I'd get one myself for target practice if I had the money and the time, I don't see it as any different from archery in that respect and I've been doing that since I was 6. But I don't think just anyone should be able to buy a gun without some kind of licensing and training and I don't want them in my schools (or banks, for that matter, unless it's an armed security guard), simple as that. I do have a problem with someone who puts forth the impression that they think their gun is more important than a person's (any person's) life though. I don't see them as mentally fit to own or operate a firearm.
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 3:47 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Guys,

Note, I'm deliberately not trying to debate the rights & wrongs of firearm ownership in the US which is why I didn't mention my own beliefs for so long.......... The ONLY point I've been trying to make is that HC has said that if she becomes POTUS she'll try to introduce ways to control firearm ownership and/or change the existing situation. (and I've posted numerous links to that effect)

And that if she does, some people in the US will see that as an infringement to their constitutional rights & flatly refuse to comply.

From THEIR point of view (NOT necessarily mine) they won't care what their Govt or even a majority of their fellow citizenry tell them or vote for, they simply won't comply because of how they interpret the wording on the 2nd amendment.

If that scenario ever comes to pass, I reckon many will take that 'cold, dead hands' thing quite literally.

I stress again that I'm talking about what a significant percentage of US firearm owning citizens believe NOT what I believe.
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 3:51 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Guys,

Note, I'm deliberately not trying to debate the rights & wrongs of firearm ownership in the US which is why I didn't mention my own beliefs for so long.......... The ONLY point I've been trying to make is that HC has said that if she becomes POTUS she'll try to introduce ways to control firearm ownership and/or change the existing situation. (and I've posted numerous links to that effect)

And that if she does, some people in the US will see that as an infringement to their constitutional rights & flatly refuse to comply.

From THEIR point of view (NOT necessarily mine) they won't care what their Govt or even a majority of their fellow citizenry tell them or vote for, they simply won't comply because of how they interpret the wording on the 2nd amendment.

If that scenario ever comes to pass, I reckon many will take that 'cold, dead hands' thing quite literally.

I stress again that I'm talking about what a significant percentage of US firearm owning citizens believe NOT what I believe.
We know it's not what you believe.

However, in a theoretical situation where the 2nd is repealed, if they as you put it, refuse to comply, then they will be breaking federal law and will be dealt with accordingly.

If someone thinks holding on to their guns out of sheer bloody mindedness is worth going to jail or potentially dying for, then they sort of deserve what they get.

But that's not going to happen. At worst, they may have to endure a bit more paperwork to get a new gun and that'll be it.

At the end of the day, it's not what they think, or what you or I think that matters, it's what the law dictates.
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 3:53 pm
  #1604  
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Default Re: President Trump

I'll add that I personally think background checks, training & central registry are perfectly reasonable....... although I doubt such tasks would be possible with so many hundreds of millions of unrecorded weapons & owners (many of whom would refuse to play ball) would be anywhere near feasible.
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Old Sep 19th 2016, 3:56 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
I'll add that I personally think background checks, training & central registry are perfectly reasonable....... although I doubt such tasks would be possible with so many hundreds of millions of unrecorded weapons & owners (many of whom would refuse to play ball) would be anywhere near feasible.
That mentality is surely the minority though. Just about all gun owners I know would be fine with the kind of reasonable measures you listed.

It can be done. If someone refuses, they'll probably go to jail and probably be made to surrender their existing guns. If they decide to 'fight' it, then they'll run into bigger issues, which they will have brought upon themselves.
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