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President Trump

President Trump

Old Sep 18th 2016, 4:21 pm
  #1576  
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Default Re: President Trump

When I was in Germany about 20 years ago there were many handguns on sale, the limitation appeared to be something to do with accuracy and the of course the buyers age. There were a multitude of small arms from upwards of 300dm. They appeared to be replicas and the cheap ones only fired blanks, but the more expensive ones looked pretty serious and I don't think anyone would have paid quite a sum of money then for something to just sit on the shelf.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 4:55 pm
  #1577  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Unlike you I am not so prejudiced as to run away from any society that I disaprove of.
So you admit: you have no principles
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 4:56 pm
  #1578  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
The sort of person you can expect to meet, has no teeth and probably webbed feet who thinks that referring to niggers is still socially acceptable.
Trump supporters to a man and woman.
Another example of how wrong you can be & how stupid it is to stereotype.

As mentioned previously, I've had a fair bit of experience of American gun owners & the vast majority have been extremely wealthy & well educated individuals....... and with few exceptions would fall into what might be called the 'professional classes'

Just some professions that spring to mind (that I've had personal experience of) would be military or ex military, doctors, surgeons of various sorts, including cardio thoracic, Professors, Veterinary surgeons, & owners of immense companies such as oil & construction etc.

Whilst most if not all of them would not have chosen Trump as their first option, I pretty much guarantee all of them would vote Republican.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 4:59 pm
  #1579  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Agreed that at its core it is a cultural problem and a very complex one. It isn't nearly as simple as "we like guns" or even a religious fanaticist approach to the constitution (as though ideas which have outlived their usefulness and /or become harmful can never be changed).

This is not a culture that can handle being armed. The annual body count and number of wounded are indisputable facts, no matter how fervently "pro-gun" (whatever that means ) somebody is. This country has a national cultural myth built about itself (freedom, self-reliance, opportunity, independence from its own government) that simply doesn't match reality so people become heavily invested in maintaining that myth even while the truth is clear - that this is a country controlled utterly by commercial interests that the government promotes. Citizens are really only customers, swayed by the marketing campaigns of the day, underinformed, constantly told to be afraid of one thing or another, and consumed by consumerism. Add in poverty, failed education, and an obsession with race and the conflict between myth and reality is striking. People don't know who they are. They cling to a myth and it doesn't work. And into this mix that is both vapid and vicious we throw a vast amount of weaponry. They aren't ready to handle it.

Compare and contrast the Swiss, for example.
Let's face it, sadly the US is a demoralised mess, and gun violence is just one of the symptoms of that mess.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 5:02 pm
  #1580  
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Default Re: President Trump

And Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are further symptoms of it.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 5:03 pm
  #1581  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
So you admit: you have no principles
What is about the phrase prejudice and your history that you do not understand.
If you were not prejudiced you would be back in the UK doing all you can to change its society to the way you want it.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 5:11 pm
  #1582  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Another example of how wrong you can be & how stupid it is to stereotype.

As mentioned previously, I've had a fair bit of experience of American gun owners & the vast majority have been extremely wealthy & well educated individuals....... and with few exceptions would fall into what might be called the 'professional classes'

Just some professions that spring to mind (that I've had personal experience of) would be military or ex military, doctors, surgeons of various sorts, including cardio thoracic, Professors, Veterinary surgeons, & owners of immense companies such as oil & construction etc.

Whilst most if not all of them would not have chosen Trump as their first option, I pretty much guarantee all of them would vote Republican.
Tney are not the sort of person carrying out drive by shootings , leaving loaded guns around the house so that small children can find them.
The vast majority of gun violence is not carried out by the professional classes.
Our friend who we visit is involved in a family support group supportimg children affected by the day to day violence that exists in the US.
Maybe not among those you know but those who struggle in a society ridden with faults.
Republicans support has traditionaly been among those who are in the wealthier strata of society who benefit everytime a Republican president reduces their tax bill and complain everytime a Democrat want to introduce anything close to a society that looks after the have nots.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 6:36 pm
  #1583  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by paulry View Post
Let's face it, sadly the US is a demoralised mess, and gun violence is just one of the symptoms of that mess.
Good job Brits are above all that.

Lasting rise in hate crime after EU referendum, figures show

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 18th 2016 at 6:51 pm.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 6:36 pm
  #1584  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Tney are not the sort of person carrying out drive by shootings , leaving loaded guns around the house so that small children can find them.
The vast majority of gun violence is not carried out by the professional classes.
Our friend who we visit is involved in a family support group supportimg children affected by the day to day violence that exists in the US.
Maybe not among those you know but those who struggle in a society ridden with faults.
Republicans support has traditionaly been among those who are in the wealthier strata of society who benefit everytime a Republican president reduces their tax bill and complain everytime a Democrat want to introduce anything close to a society that looks after the have nots.
You're right, they're not the type to carry out drive by shootings or leave loaded guns around the house........... nor are they the duck footed, toothless morons you suggested.......... They are however one of many types that would resist any form of firearm restriction that any government tried to impose and that support the principle of 'we the people' etc

And we're not talking about other political issues at the moment, we're talking solely about firearm restrictions.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 8:16 pm
  #1585  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
You're right, they're not the type to carry out drive by shootings or leave loaded guns around the house........... nor are they the duck footed, toothless morons you suggested.......... They are however one of many types that would resist any form of firearm restriction that any government tried to impose and that support the principle of 'we the people' etc

And we're not talking about other political issues at the moment, we're talking solely about firearm restrictions.
That you cannot tell the difference between a red hot political issue and gun ownership speaks volumes.
Were the affluent gun owmers you had contact with the morons who shoot endagered soecies, herbivores like giraffes, lions bred soecifically for the big game hunters.The idiots who want an animals head mounted in their den along wuth tbeir gun collection.
I wonder what else they do alone in a room with their trophies.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 8:34 pm
  #1586  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
That you cannot tell the difference between a red hot political issue and gun ownership speaks volumes.
Were the affluent gun owmers you had contact with the morons who shoot endagered soecies, herbivores like giraffes, lions bred soecifically for the big game hunters.The idiots who want an animals head mounted in their den along wuth tbeir gun collection.
I wonder what else they do alone in a room with their trophies.
I'll certainly hand it to you for for your expertise in diversionary tactics & trolling so congratulations on that.

Actually, they're the type of guys that get involved (physically, financially or both) in issues such as game capture, translocations, scientific research, community development & sponsoring such things schools, medical centres, & helping (either financially or with skills) places such as Bugando hospital in Tanzania etc.

But again, that isn't the issue being discussed here.

Just to remind you, we're discussing the issue of what would happen if HC or anyone else tried to meddle with the 2nd amendment in any way & how a VERY significant percentage of the gun owning US citizenry would react to that.

Although your last sentence makes me wonder what you do when you're alone with your computer?

Last edited by mfesharne; Sep 18th 2016 at 8:39 pm.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 8:42 pm
  #1587  
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Default Re: President Trump

I suspect that no matter how hard the media and rival candidates push the narrative that anyone intends to take legally-owned weapons from Americans, it would be political suicide for any U.S. politician to suggest such a thing.

If a politician suggests restricting certain types of firearm, magazine capacity or anything else considered 2nd Amendment-related, nothing can ever actually happen without the agreement of Congress and the Senate as I understand it.

There is an entire industry dedicated to selling more weapons to American civilians, and unfortunately there will always be a small minority of people who shouldn't be given access to weapons. There is no easy answer, but there has to be a way of preventing mass shootings.

Those who believe the 2nd Amendment gives them an absolute right to own whatever firearms they like have to be conscious that there are also responsibilities. Failure to live up to those responsibilities should have consequences such as restrictions on, or the loss of the right to own weapons.

I remember Hungerford and Dunblane, events in the UK which led to much tighter restrictions on civilian gun ownership in the UK. But criminals don't bother with laws.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 9:05 pm
  #1588  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I suspect that no matter how hard the media and rival candidates push the narrative that anyone intends to take legally-owned weapons from Americans, it would be political suicide for any U.S. politician to suggest such a thing.

If a politician suggests restricting certain types of firearm, magazine capacity or anything else considered 2nd Amendment-related, nothing can ever actually happen without the agreement of Congress and the Senate as I understand it.

There is an entire industry dedicated to selling more weapons to American civilians, and unfortunately there will always be a small minority of people who shouldn't be given access to weapons. There is no easy answer, but there has to be a way of preventing mass shootings.

Those who believe the 2nd Amendment gives them an absolute right to own whatever firearms they like have to be conscious that there are also responsibilities. Failure to live up to those responsibilities should have consequences such as restrictions on, or the loss of the right to own weapons.

I remember Hungerford and Dunblane, events in the UK which led to much tighter restrictions on civilian gun ownership in the UK. But criminals don't bother with laws.
Para 1) I agree.... it would but will add the rider of 'long term'

Para 2) As I understand it, it's a tad more complicated than that because different States have different laws & Congress & Senate can be bypassed by things such as Presidential decrees...... & indeed, mag capacity limitations have been tried in the past but were heartily ignored by the vast majority.

Para 3) I agree..... & perhaps Paulry's idea about medication might be involved but there are other issues as well. Just one being that of gun free zones where the vast majority of mass shootings take place.

I've posted links previously but there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest that a good armed man can often prevent such events..... A good example being the Canadian Parliamentary shootings of a few years ago.

Para 4) I agree they should but they don't agree & I have no idea how you address that issue.

Para 5) So do I & I also remember witnessing (and unfortunately still dream about) the results of some of the Rwanda genocide where only one side had any means of defence (let alone firearms)........ And it's events such as that which makes a significant percentage of US gun owners refuse to tolerate any 2nd amendment restriction.

Quite how you address that situation, I have no bloody idea!
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 9:10 pm
  #1589  
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Default Re: President Trump

Too much 2nd amendment stuff, time to get back on topic...

... Trump's a retard.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 9:11 pm
  #1590  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Para 1) I agree.... it would but will add the rider of 'long term'

Para 2) As I understand it, it's a tad more complicated than that because different States have different laws & Congress & Senate can be bypassed by things such as Presidential decrees...... & indeed, mag capacity limitations have been tried in the past but were heartily ignored by the vast majority.

Para 3) I agree..... & perhaps Paulry's idea about medication might be involved but there are other issues as well. Just one being that of gun free zones where the vast majority of mass shootings take place.

I've posted links previously but there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest that a good armed man can often prevent such events..... A good example being the Canadian Parliamentary shootings of a few years ago.

Para 4) I agree they should but they don't agree & I have no idea how you address that issue.

Para 5) So do I & I also remember witnessing (and unfortunately still dream about) the results of some of the Rwanda genocide where only one side had any means of defence (let alone firearms)........ And it's events such as that which makes a significant percentage of US gun owners refuse to tolerate any 2nd amendment restriction.

Quite how you address that situation, I have no bloody idea!
Rwanda and the US, there are flights of fantasy and there is total lunatic comparisons.
If there was a scale of 1 to 10 for fantastical excuses for gun ownership you have just scored 12.
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