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President Trump

President Trump

Old Sep 18th 2016, 2:56 pm
  #1561  
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Default Re: President Trump

Just watched it for the third time,
2 comments 1 from gun owner.
"You can't make laws to protect people from the own stupidity"

And from Gun Seller
"I hate seeing the (mass) shootings happened, but it is good for business !

OMG am I the only one actually who feels sick over theses' flippant comments
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:23 pm
  #1562  
 
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post

The way to fix the gun problem cannot be achieved by changing the constitution. It can only be achieved by changing the culture. And that's far more difficult than changing the constitution.
Agreed that at its core it is a cultural problem and a very complex one. It isn't nearly as simple as "we like guns" or even a religious fanaticist approach to the constitution (as though ideas which have outlived their usefulness and /or become harmful can never be changed).

This is not a culture that can handle being armed. The annual body count and number of wounded are indisputable facts, no matter how fervently "pro-gun" (whatever that means ) somebody is. This country has a national cultural myth built about itself (freedom, self-reliance, opportunity, independence from its own government) that simply doesn't match reality so people become heavily invested in maintaining that myth even while the truth is clear - that this is a country controlled utterly by commercial interests that the government promotes. Citizens are really only customers, swayed by the marketing campaigns of the day, underinformed, constantly told to be afraid of one thing or another, and consumed by consumerism. Add in poverty, failed education, and an obsession with race and the conflict between myth and reality is striking. People don't know who they are. They cling to a myth and it doesn't work. And into this mix that is both vapid and vicious we throw a vast amount of weaponry. They aren't ready to handle it.

Compare and contrast the Swiss, for example.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:24 pm
  #1563  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
What is the external threat that will require every gun owning male to appear at his local courthouse ready to go to war to defend the 13 states.
Russian paratroopers. You laugh, but it's happened before - see the documentary Red Dawn.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:26 pm
  #1564  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by paulry View Post


Clearly you outclass most of the posters on this thread with your knowledge of the current subject matter. But it won't stop the usual know-it-alls from doing a bit of reading and then wading in and claiming they know all about "guns".
Kind of you to say so but it's not surprising because I've had a fair bit of experience with both firearms & firearm owning US citizens for a large part of my life whereas most people here have spent most if not all of their lives in countries with very strict gun laws & consequently have little or no experience of them.

What I do find interesting is the people here who are displaying what might be politely termed a 'lack of knowledge' of both firearms & American gun culture (and the politics involved) are the same people who seem to think their view on Brexit is more important than those who voted to leave.

Which I guess says something about the type of person they are.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:29 pm
  #1565  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
Russian paratroopers. You laugh, but it's happened before - see the documentary Red Dawn.
I rather suspect most view the greater threat to be from within......... Something like an overbearing Government trying to disarm the citizenry.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:33 pm
  #1566  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Agreed that at its core it is a cultural problem and a very complex one. It isn't nearly as simple as "we like guns" or even a religious fanaticist approach to the constitution (as though ideas which have outlived their usefulness and /or become harmful can never be changed).

This is not a culture that can handle being armed. The annual body count and number of wounded are indisputable facts, no matter how fervently "pro-gun" (whatever that means ) somebody is. This country has a national cultural myth built about itself (freedom, self-reliance, opportunity, independence from its own government) that simply doesn't match reality so people become heavily invested in maintaining that myth even while the truth is clear - that this is a country controlled utterly by commercial interests that the government promotes. Citizens are really only customers, swayed by the marketing campaigns of the day, underinformed, constantly told to be afraid of one thing or another, and consumed by consumerism. Add in poverty, failed education, and an obsession with race and the conflict between myth and reality is striking. People don't know who they are. They cling to a myth and it doesn't work. And into this mix that is both vapid and vicious we throw a vast amount of weaponry. They aren't ready to handle it.

Compare and contrast the Swiss, for example.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:37 pm
  #1567  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Kind of you to say so but it's not surprising because I've had a fair bit of experience with both firearms & firearm owning US citizens for a large part of my life whereas most people here have spent most if not all of their lives in countries with very strict gun laws & consequently have little or no experience of them.

What I do find interesting is the people here who are displaying what might be politely termed a 'lack of knowledge' of both firearms & American gun culture (and the politics involved) are the same people who seem to think their view on Brexit is more important than those who voted to leave.

Which I guess says something about the type of person they are.
In Italy there appear to be 2 distinct sets of firearm murders, those around Naples carried out by the Camorra and its officials and those carried out by the law enforcement officers / Sworn armed guards against their partners.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:49 pm
  #1568  
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Default Re: President Trump

The difference between the Swiss & the Yanks is training & as I said earlier, I believe in training.......... But the US is what it is complete with the hundreds of millions of firearms it has & the constitution it has & neither can be altered whether anyone likes it or not.

So perhaps one should look at other influences such as everything from movies to computer games to society as a whole........ and y'know what, how TF do you even begin to change those things either?

About the only certainty is that if you look back a few decades, the Yanks still had plenty of guns & it wasn't uncommon for youngsters to get them as presents but mass shootings simply didn't happen.

Which maybe takes us back to the overmedicated (US) society that Paulry was talking about?
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:51 pm
  #1569  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
Russian paratroopers. You laugh, but it's happened before - see the documentary Red Dawn.
If I thought you were being serious I know that there would be no hope for those who think that way.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
Kind of you to say so but it's not surprising because I've had a fair bit of experience with both firearms & firearm owning US citizens for a large part of my life whereas most people here have spent most if not all of their lives in countries with very strict gun laws & consequently have little or no experience of them.

What I do find interesting is the people here who are displaying what might be politely termed a 'lack of knowledge' of both firearms & American gun culture (and the politics involved) are the same people who seem to think their view on Brexit is more important than those who voted to leave.

Which I guess says something about the type of person they are.
Not Express readers you mean, not prejudiced against immigrants.
Not pilorying any individual because of his religion, etc etc etc etc etc.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:57 pm
  #1571  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by mfesharne View Post
I rather suspect most view the greater threat to be from within......... Something like an overbearing Government trying to disarm the citizenry.
Have far to the right are you going , now supporting those rightwing militia nutters.

Remember prior to 9/11 the US biggest terror incident was the Oklahoma bombing, the culprit one of those who thinks like those in your post.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 3:58 pm
  #1572  
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Default Re: President Trump

No, just youthful enthusiam in the 21st century! If I wasn't an Atheist I'd say God help us but as a realist I would say that Allah's supporters will sort out the West in another hundred years or so.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 4:00 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

There's a very simple difference between American culture and much of the western world: Americans not only believe they need guns, but are actively encouraged to believe that.

For reference, Europeans just don't feel they need them.

In terms of law, many people believe guns are illegal in Europe, but nothing could be farther from the truth. For example, all of the weapons recovered in the recent mall shootings in Munich, are fully legal under German law (including the handguns). The shooter didn't have a permit to own them, and had allegedly obtained them on the black market, but they were all of a type that can be legally owned with proper permits.

Obviously, obtaining such permits is far more difficult in Europe than in the USA, but people can still get them if they want them.

Again, the difference is that most Europeans simply see no need. It's cultural, not a matter of law. It's not considered a "patriotic necessity".

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 18th 2016 at 4:05 pm.
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 4:01 pm
  #1574  
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Have far to the right are you going , now supporting those rightwing militia nutters.

Remember prior to 9/11 the US biggest terror incident was the Oklahoma bombing, the culprit one of those who thinks like those in your post.
And I thought it was Afghanistan!
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Old Sep 18th 2016, 4:13 pm
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Default Re: President Trump

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
There's a very simple difference between American culture and much of the western world: Americans not only believe they need guns, but are actively encouraged to believe that.

For reference, Europeans just don't feel they need them.

In terms of law, many people believe guns are illegal in Europe, but nothing could be farther from the truth. For example, all of the weapons recovered in the recent mall shootings in Munich, are fully legal under German law (including the handguns). The shooter didn't have a permit to own them, and had allegedly obtained them on the black market, but they were all of a type that can be legally owned with proper permits.

Obviously, obtaining such permits is far more difficult in Europe than in the USA, but people can still get them if they want them.

Again, the difference is that most Europeans simply see no need. It's cultural, not a matter of law. It's not considered a "patriotic necessity".
I don't know if that's true or not but it is true that some used elsewhere were not obtained legally & one at least had previously been part of a consignment the US Govt gave to drug smugglers as part of the ridiculous fast & furious project. (I've published the links about that several times)

But getting back to the US, the facts can't be changed & one of those facts is that HC has repeatedly said if she becomes POTUS, she'll try to effect some kind of firearm control & another fact is there's an awful lot of people simply won't be willing to play that game.

Time will tell though.
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