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President Biden

President Biden

Old Jan 24th 2021, 11:33 pm
  #2386  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
If they really did ignore the warning, and they were armed, then F**K them and round them up.

I said it last year, and it's so much more relevant today after the Capitol events. Smashing up property, rioting and looting, should be perfectly valid justification for being tear-gassed and locked up.
I agree. Should have happened to the 1k plus insurrectionists at the Capitol as well.
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Old Jan 24th 2021, 11:45 pm
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
I guess I've lived in this country longer than most on here.... Fauci is an absolute public health hero for his recognition of and work on the AIDS/HIV crisis from the early '80's onwards. He received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from George W Bush in 2008, having been described as an American hero by Bush Senior during a presidential debate in 1988. This country owes a great debt to him.

https://drt.cmc.edu/2020/03/23/georg...fauci-in-1988/
You are spot on with that post. In spite of all of that, he did not have the high national recognition he has acquired in the past 4 years. I had to be reminded of his Medal of Freedom, as fleeting exposure to someone and their accomplishments has a tendency to fade as years pass. That is why I posted on a comment by yellowroom that most people, prior to Covid, had likely never heard of him, at least in a lasting manner. The man is definitely worthy of the highest praise, and, not deserving of, as yellowroom seems to suggest, being pushed aside to make room for a younger version, with less experience. He is where he belongs..
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 2:21 am
  #2388  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I'm an atheist / agnostic, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing the power / effect of religion. If you are brought up in a religious framework, and you believe at your core that it is your duty to 'civilize' the world, then is being 'imperialist' wrong, in that context? I'm sure many imperialists truly felt they were doing the world a favor by conquering them and bringing them 'the truth'. I despise Mormons for it, but I will admit that they truly believe they are doing good by going around the world trying to 'convert' people.
Imagine being brought up at a time when 'blacks' were truly seen as sub-human. Was it wrong to consider blacks as a commodity that could be sold or enslaved? It's a horrific thought, today, but what if from the day of birth it's all you ever heard / knew? Imagine if, 1,000 years from now, we find that vegetables have feelings and we've been torturing them all this time by cooking and eating them ... yeah, silly example I know ... I'll see if I can come up with a better one
The "they were of their time" is often used to excuse the bad, I never hear it used to halt the praise of good. We judge on what we see as our values, nobody thinks they are in the wrong themselves, if they did, they wouldn't do what they did; they may acknowledge that others disapprove; but they do what they do, because its right or necessary to them, so we may see hypocrisy, in what they say to justify themselves among their peers, but they will still have their own internal justifications, even if it is that they just deserve the nice things more than anyone else.
I am sympathetic to the idea of not ascribing blame to people for their actions. This would be a progressive step in removing revenge punishment and replacing it with preventative measure. Acknowledging that all actions are the results of cause and affect. That our actions are a result of a combination of our brain chemistry, physics and our combined experiences. This however still would not remove deterrent punishment, and the social deterrent of pointing out what was done is considered wrong. ,
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 4:58 am
  #2389  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
I agree. Should have happened to the 1k plus insurrectionists at the Capitol as well.
It seems to be happening, slowly.

I would also support the idea of a curfew or time limit on demonstrations. No one - right or left, good or bad - needs to be out demonstrating after 10pm. I'd personally say, 'after dark' but that does happen a bit early in winter!
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 5:00 am
  #2390  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
You are spot on with that post. In spite of all of that, he did not have the high national recognition he has acquired in the past 4 years. I had to be reminded of his Medal of Freedom, as fleeting exposure to someone and their accomplishments has a tendency to fade as years pass. That is why I posted on a comment by yellowroom that most people, prior to Covid, had likely never heard of him, at least in a lasting manner. The man is definitely worthy of the highest praise, and, not deserving of, as yellowroom seems to suggest, being pushed aside to make room for a younger version, with less experience. He is where he belongs..
True, but I think Yellowroom's 'bigger picture' idea was that we are failing to promote younger people into higher positions, leaving us in a situation where we have people like Pelosi, Biden, etc holding way too much power for their age.
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 5:58 am
  #2391  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
True, but I think Yellowroom's 'bigger picture' idea was that we are failing to promote younger people into higher positions, leaving us in a situation where we have people like Pelosi, Biden, etc holding way too much power for their age.
That really isn't the same. Pelosi and Biden and a whole list of other aged folks that are politicians, were elected by the voters. If the voters don't want people their age in office, don't vote for them. The only 'promoting' possible is to promote other candidates to run. Then it is still up to the voters. Even though I often want to see an age limit on running for office, that would be age discrimination, which we would not accept if directed at us. To add another point, who decides which older person gets relegated to the scrap heap? That younger model might not have the 'right stuff'. Remember, newly elected members of Congress are....rookies at the job and have a lot to learn. They are not the same as Doctors, or Scientists or other such occupations where the individual went to University to study their specialty and perhaps obtained their Masters and went on to their career and developed expertise in their field. Legislating on the federal level is a whole different ballgame. That said, I would still like to see Pelosi and some others retire.
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 7:52 am
  #2392  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
You are spot on with that post. In spite of all of that, he did not have the high national recognition he has acquired in the past 4 years. I had to be reminded of his Medal of Freedom, as fleeting exposure to someone and their accomplishments has a tendency to fade as years pass. That is why I posted on a comment by yellowroom that most people, prior to Covid, had likely never heard of him, at least in a lasting manner. The man is definitely worthy of the highest praise, and, not deserving of, as yellowroom seems to suggest, being pushed aside to make room for a younger version, with less experience. He is where he belongs..
I am not seeking for Dr Fauci to be pushed aside. I am seeking for him to start introducing other equally talented folk to the public to minimise the chances of him becoming a saviour in people’s minds. It’s not only him that can save us, but it’s not good that people think he is.

Look at RBG. Another hero, but she wasn’t the only judge that could have done what she did. But six years ago no one wanted to face that she wasn’t going to live forever and that she’d already had some serious health issues. In hindsight, it would have been better for her to step down and allow Obama to appoint a younger replacement. There was no guarantee that a Democrat would win the next election. Was the extra few years RBG gave worth it?

No one likes thinking this kind of thing, but it is far better for the country to have a robust and transparent succession plan. The mess around RBG’s replacement shows why.
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 10:18 am
  #2393  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by yellowroom View Post
I am not seeking for Dr Fauci to be pushed aside. I am seeking for him to start introducing other equally talented folk to the public to minimise the chances of him becoming a saviour in people’s minds. It’s not only him that can save us, but it’s not good that people think he is.

Look at RBG. Another hero, but she wasn’t the only judge that could have done what she did. But six years ago no one wanted to face that she wasn’t going to live forever and that she’d already had some serious health issues. In hindsight, it would have been better for her to step down and allow Obama to appoint a younger replacement. There was no guarantee that a Democrat would win the next election. Was the extra few years RBG gave worth it?

No one likes thinking this kind of thing, but it is far better for the country to have a robust and transparent succession plan. The mess around RBG’s replacement shows why.
I like to give people credit for realizing that Fauci has a highly qualified staff under his supervision. I cannot imagine anyone thinking he is a solo artist, working alone in some little office somewhere. . Fauci is brilliant and highly accomplished but he is not alone at the NIH and he is not running a talent show. He has a highly qualified group of individuals under his supervision, but he is the voice, the face if you will, of the NIH. That, in my opinion, is as it should be, with him bringing forth other voices as needed for particular subjects or situations. . I will remind you that your lead sentence in the original post was..."I agree he is doing a great job. But should anyone at that age be the key leader for such an important role?". That did not leave much gray area....just pure age discrimination. One also might consider reading the bios of the senior staff under Faucis direction at NIH to understand the qualifications of those therein. https://www.niaid.nih.gov/about/senior-leadership As for RBG, not an apt comparison. Her position on the court was a lifetime appointment and as a result only she could make the decision to leave, no one else. I hold that appointment to that position should not be lifetime, for more than one reason.


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Old Jan 25th 2021, 11:40 am
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post

I would also support the idea of a curfew or time limit on demonstrations. No one - right or left, good or bad - needs to be out demonstrating after 10pm. I'd personally say, 'after dark' but that does happen a bit early in winter!
Can't go with that. The freedom to demonstrate and the right to be on the streets should not ever be turned into a crime just because of the time on the clock or the light in the sky. That would be to give the state far too much power and of quite the wrong sort. We are (or should be) governed by consent and the government works for us (or should do).
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 11:57 am
  #2395  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
I like to give people credit for realizing that Fauci has a highly qualified staff under his supervision. I cannot imagine anyone thinking he is a solo artist, working alone in some little office somewhere.
Your faith in the general public is stronger than mine.

"I agree he is doing a great job. But should anyone at that age be the key leader for such an important role?". That did not leave much gray area....just pure age discrimination.
I disagree, I am not questioning their ability to do their jobs purely on age. Mitigation of risks is not discrimination, nor is succession planning. Like the Prince of Wales or the Duke of Cambridge deputising for the Queen. Her Majesty appears to be as sharp as ever but it's no surprise to anyone that at 94 she needs to pace herself a bit. Making a hero/saviour out of one person is bad in the long term, regardless of their age. Taking the royal example further, a significant majority of people in this country have only ever known the Queen as Monarch. I've seen and heard comments from people saying the Monarchy will come to an end when she dies, because people simply can't imagine having someone else do the role or think the Prince of Wales could possibly do as good a job himself. Which I expect is one of the reasons that the Queen now deputises so many duties, to get people used to her successors performing them.

Bringing it back to the topic of this thread - I'm glad that President Biden picked an age-appropriate VP. She has been subjected to the same scrutiny as he has, she's got a high enough profile in her own right that (God forbid) POTUS has a health event and she has to step in, either temporarily or permanently, it shouldn't cause problems for the stability of the country. I'm not wishing it at all, but just thinking of John McCain. Had he picked a more suitable VP candidate, he could possibly have won in 2008 at the age of 72 and served 2 terms. He was a vigorous, healthy man in 2008, capable of doing the job, but had his health taken the same path he'd have been struggling towards the end of the 8 years and had brain surgery just after he stepped down. I remember the fuss about Ronald Reagan being 69 when he was inaugurated, and his mental health problems in his second term are well documented now, although denied at the time.

So yes, I think it entirely appropriate to ask that there is a higher and more visible degree of succession planning when key public positions are held by people of that age.
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 12:00 pm
  #2396  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
that is why I posted on a comment by yellowroom that most people, prior to Covid, had likely never heard of him, at least in a lasting manner. .
I would be grateful if you could point out where I said that most people had never heard of Fauci before Covid.
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 12:12 pm
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Can't go with that. The freedom to demonstrate and the right to be on the streets should not ever be turned into a crime just because of the time on the clock or the light in the sky. That would be to give the state far too much power and of quite the wrong sort. We are (or should be) governed by consent and the government works for us (or should do).
Absolutely. And not forgetting the Reclaim the Night (UK)/ Take back the Night (US) protests by women's groups. I believe the UK one started in the 1970s as women protesting about harassment trying to get to and from jobs outside the 9-5 window because of the commonly held sexist view that "good" women were at home at night and only prostitutes were out after dark.
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 12:32 pm
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by yellowroom View Post
I would be grateful if you could point out where I said that most people had never heard of Fauci before Covid.
The importance of commas becomes clear in my failure to use some. I should have written it this way" that is why I posted, on a comment by yellowroom, that most people, prior to Covid, had likely never heard of him, at least in a lasting manner.

Even with the extra commas it seems easy to misinterpret. My bad. In any event, I was the one making that statement.

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Old Jan 25th 2021, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
The importance of commas becomes clear in my failure to use some.
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Old Jan 25th 2021, 1:05 pm
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Can't go with that. The freedom to demonstrate and the right to be on the streets should not ever be turned into a crime just because of the time on the clock or the light in the sky. That would be to give the state far too much power and of quite the wrong sort. We are (or should be) governed by consent and the government works for us (or should do).
I have always hated the old "the government works for us" point of view. The problem is, the 'us' being referred to has no uniform opinion on anything. Especially on what the government should and shouldn't do. What one group thinks the government should do, another group does not. Finding total consensus in the population, on any issue, is absolutely impossible. For crying out loud, they bicker over the constitutionality of a mask mandate in a pandemic, or constitutionality of morons strutting around with AR15's to intimidate those who oppose such idiocy and do not want to live in fear of nuts with guns roaming the street. The list is long of supposed constitutional rights that are highly debatable, and too often ridiculous. I believe the governments job is to work for the benefit of the people as a whole, in the best interests of the population as a whole, including their safety. Someone wants to protest, do it during daylight or don't do it and if you don't like it, don't whine about being arrested.
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