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President Biden

President Biden

Old Jan 22nd 2021, 10:33 pm
  #2296  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Is there a bust of FDR in 10 Downing St?
Exactly. The question isn't "Why are they removing it?" The question is, "Why was it there to begin with?'
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 10:37 pm
  #2297  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
Ironic that the only reason you can get away with such a remark is because that racist and imperialist orchestrated succeeded in the repulsion of the Nazis. I can't see you getting away with any criticism of Hitler's great grandson if he were in charge now. Who cares if Uncle Joe got rid of the bust, and who cares if he doesn't consider the relationship special, at least that means the Brits won't get called upon to back the yanks up in their next illegal war.
Churchill’s leadership in WW2 does not exempt him from criticism of his actions elsewhere in his career. People are complex, good people do bad things and vice versa. That he was the right person to be PM in WW2 is not in doubt, but it does not grant him immunity from critical review. And he said and did things that are undoubtedly racist and imperialist.
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 10:39 pm
  #2298  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
Exactly. The question isn't "Why are they removing it?" The question is, "Why was it there to begin with?'
That’s the $64,000 question.
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 10:41 pm
  #2299  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
Ironic that the only reason you can get away with such a remark is because that racist and imperialist orchestrated succeeded in the repulsion of the Nazis. I can't see you getting away with any criticism of Hitler's great grandson if he were in charge now. Who cares if Uncle Joe got rid of the bust, and who cares if he doesn't consider the relationship special, at least that means the Brits won't get called upon to back the yanks up in their next illegal war.
Whatever he may have done or not done, doesn't remove the fact that he was racist and an imperialist.
Please outline how Churchill was not a racist nor an imperialist.
I am in America, please outline how Germany would have invaded the USA and been successful, given that the USA (and help from allies) and the Soviets defeated the German army.
You'd have to outline when Hitler planed on invading, I assume you are alluding to Britain. There was Operation Sea Lion in response to British actions, but it got called off, and war games concluded that it would have failed, resulting in a situation similar to Dunkirk, but reversed. The you'd have to outline how Germany would have fended off the Soviets, Possibly the USA too, maybe not. Churchill did seem to do a lot to get the USA involved, although they decaled war on Germany independently.
So to sum up, I am asking you to provide evidence that Churchill declared war to stop an invasion (thats a bit of a myth, and apparently your claim), rather then another iteration, of a tradition of two European powers attacking the rise of a third emergent European power.in an attempt to maintain the power balance, and protect overseas imperial possessions. Given the stated war aims, protection of Poland, the war was a failure, Churchill lost Eastern Europe to Stalinist expansion. The less stated war aim of protecting overseas possessions from an emergent power, was also a failure, as the war brought about the end of empire. Maybe Churchill was as bad as a PM as he was when he lost Norway as Lord of the admiralty. Of course the loss of life has to be explained away some how, so it gets spun as a war against fascism, A fascism that almost saw Italy be an ally of Britain, a fascism that was ignored in Spain. Countries have got to spin things so they feel good about what they do.
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 10:47 pm
  #2300  
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Default Re: President Biden

Oh ffs, he rearranged the furniture, get over it. He may have put Churchill in his bedroom for all anyone knows. It's got nothing to do with special relationships or lack of them.
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 10:59 pm
  #2301  
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Default Re: President Biden

I suppose a few busts of some French folks would not go amiss in the White House. After all, without them the Colonies would have lost the revolution.
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 11:05 pm
  #2302  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
Ironic that the only reason you can get away with such a remark is because that racist and imperialist orchestrated and succeeded in the repulsion of the Nazis. I can't see you getting away with any criticism of Hitler's great grandson if he were in charge now. Who cares if Uncle Joe got rid of the bust, and who cares if he doesn't consider the relationship special, at least that means the Brits won't get called upon to back the yanks up in their next illegal war.
I commend what Churchill did in WW2, but reality says this: Without the U.S. there could have been no Normandy invasion, and, to be blunt, had Hitler not been an idiot and invaded the Soviet Union, there is likely no way the Germans would have lost WW2 even with the U.S. involvement. History is a quirky thing. Point is, Churchill was one cog in a wheel and in no way won the war by himself. Perhaps there should be a bust of Stalin in the Oval Office. After all, they suffered the greatest losses and destroyed the greatest number of German forces. See? Quirky history.

Last edited by dakota44; Jan 22nd 2021 at 11:08 pm.
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 11:12 pm
  #2303  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by yellowroom View Post
Churchill’s leadership in WW2 does not exempt him from criticism of his actions elsewhere in his career. People are complex, good people do bad things and vice versa. That he was the right person to be PM in WW2 is not in doubt, but it does not grant him immunity from critical review. And he said and did things that are undoubtedly racist and imperialist.
Originally Posted by kimilseung View Post
Whatever he may have done or not done, doesn't remove the fact that he was racist and an imperialist.
Please outline how Churchill was not a racist nor an imperialist.
I am in America, please outline how Germany would have invaded the USA and been successful, given that the USA (and help from allies) and the Soviets defeated the German army.
You'd have to outline when Hitler planed on invading, I assume you are alluding to Britain. There was Operation Sea Lion in response to British actions, but it got called off, and war games concluded that it would have failed, resulting in a situation similar to Dunkirk, but reversed. The you'd have to outline how Germany would have fended off the Soviets, Possibly the USA too, maybe not. Churchill did seem to do a lot to get the USA involved, although they decaled war on Germany independently.
So to sum up, I am asking you to provide evidence that Churchill declared war to stop an invasion (thats a bit of a myth, and apparently your claim), rather then another iteration, of a tradition of two European powers attacking the rise of a third emergent European power.in an attempt to maintain the power balance, and protect overseas imperial possessions. Given the stated war aims, protection of Poland, the war was a failure, Churchill lost Eastern Europe to Stalinist expansion. The less stated war aim of protecting overseas possessions from an emergent power, was also a failure, as the war brought about the end of empire. Maybe Churchill was as bad as a PM as he was when he lost Norway as Lord of the admiralty. Of course the loss of life has to be explained away some how, so it gets spun as a war against fascism, A fascism that almost saw Italy be an ally of Britain, a fascism that was ignored in Spain. Countries have got to spin things so they feel good about what they do.
Can someone please point out where I denied his racist imperialist leanings? All I'm doing is not getting hung up on them because I think his contribution to the free world outweighs them.

I'm lost for words as to the rest of your post, I'm going for a coffee.

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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 11:20 pm
  #2304  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
Can someone please point out where I denied his racist imperialist leanings? All I'm doing is not getting hung up on them because I think his contribution to the free world outweighs them.

I'm lost for words as to the rest of your post, I'm going for a coffee.
I'll take that as you having nothing then, I mean this really cuts to the power of the mythology doesn't it?
You dont deny his "racist imperialist leanings" but he is still a bulwark of the "free world"
You cant have an empire, defend that empire and claim its in the name of freedom, thats just nonsense, or the power of nationalistic propoganda.

Last edited by kimilseung; Jan 22nd 2021 at 11:23 pm.
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 11:25 pm
  #2305  
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Default Re: President Biden

My mum has a Ned Kelly made out of scrap iron in her garden, if anyone would like that?
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Old Jan 22nd 2021, 11:30 pm
  #2306  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
My mum has a Ned Kelly made out of scrap iron in her garden, if anyone would like that?
Complete with the beard?
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:09 am
  #2307  
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Default Re: President Biden

Damn it, we must put a statue up of somebody!
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:19 am
  #2308  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by stevenglish1 View Post
Can someone please point out where I denied his racist imperialist leanings? All I'm doing is not getting hung up on them because I think his contribution to the free world outweighs them..
Maybe you should not get hung up on a few uncomfortable children in front of the world's press and think about Biden's contribution to ousting Trump.
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:20 am
  #2309  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
My mum has a Ned Kelly made out of scrap iron in her garden, if anyone would like that?
Is Mick Jagger inside?
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Old Jan 23rd 2021, 12:26 am
  #2310  
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Default Re: President Biden

Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
Damn it, we must put a statue up of somebody!
Brian Sicknick?
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