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Post EU Referendum...Part II

Post EU Referendum...Part II

Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:17 pm
  #1456  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Well, if you support Catalan independence (although their grievance is with Spain, not the EU, and still aspire to remain in the EU, despite the EU supporting Spain's position), then you'd also have to support Scottish independence, and ostensibly, Irish reunification too, right?
The Scottish don't want it, neither do the Northern Irish.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:23 pm
  #1457  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
But you said previously that the availability of cheap Labour reduces the pay of British workers. If parts suppliers and assembly plants set up in other countries, that creates less incentive for the migration of cheap labour, doesn't it? If course, Brit workers could (and some have done so) migrate to those countries to take those jobs.
So we either allow mass migration from the EU into our country, or export businesses to the EU from our country. All the time whilst paying-in billions for the privilege. Sounds like a great deal this EU. More like a shake-down.

No Brits have left the UK to work in Romanian car plants, don't be ridiculous.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:33 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
OK fair enough, but that brings up another point.

Within one week after the Catalonia vote, 3000 companies moved to (or deregistered in Catalonia, and registered their businesses in) Spain. This was wholly unexpected (well, never mentioned, anyway) by those promoting independence. Like the Brexit referendum, the polls show that if that vote were recast today, the result would likely be the opposite - by a substantial margin. But that's just the benefit of hindsight.
I wonder who made up that 3,000 number - you see it quoted a lot, but not the source.

They should have said 6,000, then it would have been twice as convincing.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:45 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Sure, some pension funds etc might invest, but how does it help the average man on the street that the EU has loaned 80M to Ford in Turkey to ramp up production of the Transit, whilst Ford closes the UK plant?
Is that the same Ford which received around £450m from the same source for its UK operation in 2010?
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:54 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Is that the same Ford which received around £450m from the same source for its UK operation in 2010?
Yes - British money being loaned to a company in Britain, unlike the Transit where it was British money being loaned to a company to expand production in Turkey so the UK plant could be closed
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:58 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Yes - British money being loaned to a company in Britain, unlike the Transit where it was British money being loaned to a company to expand production in Turkey so the UK plant could be closed
Where do you get it from that it's British money that's being loaned?
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 6:00 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Where do you get it from that it's British money that's being loaned?
There are very few net contributors to the EU.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 6:02 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
There are very few net contributors to the EU.
But the European Investment Bank (where the loans came from) isn't funded out of the EU budget.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 6:43 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Where do you get it from that it's British money that's being loaned?
What's more, it wasn't just the Southampton plant that closed; the Genk plant in Belgium was shut down as well. But no mention of the Belgian workers who lost their jobs. You'd think it's only ever British workers who suffer at the hands of Big Business (or "the EU", take your pick).

At any rate, Ford is an American company, so isn't it a disgrace that it exported all those American jobs to the UK for decades? Look at the state of Detroit. Where's the manufactured outrage at that?

Whilst I think that there are questions to be answered about the EIB loan, this attempt to frame the whole affair as the nasty EU vs. the put-upon UK is just, well, brexity.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 6:48 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I wonder who made up that 3,000 number - you see it quoted a lot, but not the source.

They should have said 6,000, then it would have been twice as convincing.
You claim to be a businessman. If that's the case, then you, like others, should be able to realise that if your business is operating in a country that's about to isolate itself from its largest trading relationships, that it's going to impact you.

In Catalonia's case, if the independence were actually achieved, then trade with its largest trading relationships would effectively become problematic at best, or cease entirely, until new relationships could be established. Immediately following the vote, it was quite easy to simply establish their business in a jurisdiction which eliminated those risks. It's not rocket science, nor fake news, as you'd like to believe.

And frankly, the same applies in the UK. Although few "real" businesses actually expected the UK government to ultimately go through with its delusional and highly damaging threats, after two years of exhibiting no understanding of it, it actually started to appear likely.

And while it's relatively simple for the financial services business to establish legal operations on the continent (and virtually all have done so) and can somewhat easily move everything if need be, it isn't so simple for manufacturers like automakers and aerospace. They're waiting to see the final outcome before taking multi-billion cost decisions. Just as they've said all along, and rightfully so.

The latest news seems positive. I suspect the UK has privately communicated that it will be willing to accept the equivalent of EEA membership, give or take this or that, as long as it isn't named as such, and that's why the markets are responding positively. But that still isn't the end of it. The Brexiteers aren't having any of that, so the chance of falling off the cliff is still very real. Tick tock.

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 12th 2018 at 7:14 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Yes - British money being loaned to a company in Britain, unlike the Transit where it was British money being loaned to a company to expand production in Turkey so the UK plant could be closed
The Southampton plant was, small , old ,inefficient, poor productivity..
Typical of the story behinfd much of the demise in British manufacturing...
Vans could be produced taster and for less in the modern Turkish plant.
Don,t blame the EU, blame Ford. it's globalism ..
Globalism, as demonstrated with BMW in Cowley, Toyota, Nissan, Honda all built modern plants , highly efficient ,highly productive free of the union problems that bedevilled the old UK auto industry,.

Last edited by EMR; Sep 12th 2018 at 7:22 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 7:55 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
But the European Investment Bank (where the loans came from) isn't funded out of the EU budget.
True, I stand corrected. I knew it was part of the EU but the funding is from the member states in a different way than normal EU funding.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 8:01 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
You claim to be a businessman. If that's the case, then you, like others, should be able to realise that if your business is operating in a country that's about to isolate itself from its largest trading relationships, that it's going to impact you.
As the UK isn't about to isolate itself from its largest trading partner, the rest of your argument is moot.

The latest news seems positive. I suspect the UK has privately communicated that it will be willing to accept the equivalent of EEA membership, give or take this or that, as long as it isn't named as such, and that's why the markets are responding positively. But that still isn't the end of it. The Brexiteers aren't having any of that, so the chance of falling off the cliff is still very real. Tick tock.
The UK will not accept FOM, general ECJ nor £10B a year. Tick tock indeed, so many Europeans must be getting very scared.

Any idea where the 3,000 number came from?

Last edited by Cape Blue; Sep 12th 2018 at 8:04 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
The Southampton plant was, small , old ,inefficient, poor productivity..
Typical of the story behinfd much of the demise in British manufacturing...
Vans could be produced taster and for less in the modern Turkish plant.
Don,t blame the EU, blame Ford. it's globalism ..
Globalism, as demonstrated with BMW in Cowley, Toyota, Nissan, Honda all built modern plants , highly efficient ,highly productive free of the union problems that bedevilled the old UK auto industry,.
I can't help but agree with you that it was unions that decimated UK industry, but why would the EU Inv Bank lend money to Ford to move a plant(s) outside the EU?
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 8:17 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
As the UK isn't about to isolate itself from its largest trading partner, the rest of your argument is moot.
Public record.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The UK will not accept FOM, general ECJ nor £10B a year. Tick tock indeed, so many Europeans must be getting very scared.
It's more like pity.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Any idea where the 3,000 number came from?
Public record.
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