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Post EU Referendum...Part II

Post EU Referendum...Part II

Old Sep 12th 2018, 12:09 pm
  #1441  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
All of above absolutely true, but the simple reality is that if UK manufacturers no longer have free unfettered access to the single market, there's simply no point in staying in the UK. As they've been saying all along.
Yet of the EU 28 the UK is the second largest car market (i.e new cars purchased) and a larger market than 20-odd EU countries put-together.

Perhaps the issue will be for the rEU car manufacturers being allowed unfettered access to the UK market?

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/eu...-efta-country/
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 12:40 pm
  #1442  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Yet of the EU 28 the UK is the second largest car market (i.e new cars purchased) and a larger market than 20-odd EU countries put-together.

Perhaps the issue will be for the rEU car manufacturers being allowed unfettered access to the UK market?

https://www.best-selling-cars.com/eu...-efta-country/

70+% of automobiles manufactured in Britain are for "export" to the EU. It's difficult to move a manufacturing plant, but if the UK leaves the single market, they'll have no other choice. The very reason for being in the UK is to service the single market. As they've all been saying since the referendum.

The bonus is that if they manufactured on the continent, they'll still service the smaller UK market (the UK is dependent on imports, especially European goods). So, in the end, it's just good business to leave the UK.

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 12th 2018 at 12:46 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 1:34 pm
  #1443  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
70+% of automobiles manufactured in Britain are for "export" to the EU. It's difficult to move a manufacturing plant, but if the UK leaves the single market, they'll have no other choice. The very reason for being in the UK is to service the single market. As they've all been saying since the referendum.

The bonus is that if they manufactured on the continent, they'll still service the smaller UK market (the UK is dependent on imports, especially European goods). So, in the end, it's just good business to leave the UK.
Car plants have been closing in the UK throughout the reign of the EU, and reappearing in cheaper countries - yet this seems to be forgotten by remainiacs who only see the positive of the EU.

The UK is leaving the SM - there is no "if" about it.

The UK will continue to sell cars into the EU, there will be little disruption, there is no "they'll have no choice but to move" - that's just a remainiacs wet dream.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 2:07 pm
  #1444  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Car plants have been closing in the UK throughout the reign of the EU, and reappearing in cheaper countries - yet this seems to be forgotten by remainiacs who only see the positive of the EU.

The UK is leaving the SM - there is no "if" about it.

The UK will continue to sell cars into the EU, there will be little disruption, there is no "they'll have no choice but to move" - that's just a remainiacs wet dream.
Well, it's just what those companies have said. And it's not a stretch to comprehend that if access to their primary market is hampered or removed, then they'd have little choice but to move to where they can continue free trade with it. And it isn't as if the UK will suddenly ban or impede European imports it's so dependent upon. So, Nissan, for example, moving to say, Romania, wouldn't lose the UK market, yet still enjoy free access to its primary market. That doesn't seem like a bad business decision at all.

And as far as "remaniacs" "forgetting" that industry has been moving out of the UK for decades, it's worth considering that this indeed is going to be the whole revelation that Brexiteers have ignored in all of this. How is the UK going to magically replace the loss of trade? Nobody seems to be able to explain that without fabricating implausible scenarios.

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 12th 2018 at 3:11 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 2:22 pm
  #1445  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Car plants have been closing in the UK throughout the reign of the EU, and reappearing in cheaper countries - yet this seems to be forgotten by remainiacs who only see the positive of the EU.

The UK is leaving the SM - there is no "if" about it.

The UK will continue to sell cars into the EU, there will be little disruption, there is no "they'll have no choice but to move" - that's just a remainiacs wet dream.
What‘s wrong with leaving the UK and producing cars in cheaper Bulgaria. If the UK with its rising salaries and burdensome red tape is too expensive it will lose out. Simple rational economic decision. You have repeated this ad nauseam: companies that employ carbon units above the market rates will lose out and go out of business.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 2:40 pm
  #1446  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The UK is leaving the SM - there is no "if" about it.
Well that's what they're saying at the moment (except for wanting to be in the Single Market for goods, of course).

But that's just their starting point.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 2:45 pm
  #1447  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Some time ago, I posted an article explaining how the UK is about to miss out on substantial (and in some cases, explosive) economic growth in eastern Europe as that very migration of business increases, and how Brexit will only accelerate it.

This was always a key point of the EU. There's still huge growth potential within it, especially as its weaker economies, only now coming to understand the true power of free markets. The UK, by choosing not to be a part of it, will simply miss out on that increasing market, and forever be dependent on the "kindness of strangers" as the BOE puts it.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 2:50 pm
  #1448  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by DigitalGhost View Post
Ah the EU. The only part of the supposedly 'free world' that's so unequivocally bent that people are forced to smuggle in black market ballot papers if they want to exercise democracy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45226484
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Ah yes, the Catalan independence elections.
Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post

Those elections were illegal under Spanish law (and those smuggling the ballot papers knew this, otherwise why the secrecy), yet some wanted the EU to intervene in a member state's domestic politics, while complaining that the EU interfered too much in the affairs of it's member states. Either member states are 'sovereign' or they're not.

I find it laughable that people who are anti-EU want the EU to break a member state's laws because they dislike the law.



Bet he's got a completely hypocritical and entirely opposite take on the triggering of a procedure to vote on sanctions against a member state where it is actually within the EU's remit, though.

UK Toffs Party apparently going to vote against that one - well they would, wouldn't they, since they're now out of the EPP and in with Orban's lot. You'd have thought they might tactfully abstain, under the current circs, though, wouldn't you?
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 2:58 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Well, if you support Catalan independence (although their grievance is with Spain, not the EU, and still aspire to remain in the EU, despite the EU supporting Spain's position), then you'd also have to support Scottish independence, and ostensibly, Irish reunification too, right?

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 12th 2018 at 3:04 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 3:08 pm
  #1450  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Car plants have been closing in the UK throughout the reign of the EU, and reappearing in cheaper countries - yet this seems to be forgotten by remainiacs.
But you said previously that the availability of cheap Labour reduces the pay of British workers. If parts suppliers and assembly plants set up in other countries, that creates less incentive for the migration of cheap labour, doesn't it? If course, Brit workers could (and some have done so) migrate to those countries to take those jobs.

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Well, if you support Catalan independence (although their grievance is with Spain, and still aspire to remain in the EU, despite the EU supporting Spain's position), then you'd also have to support Scottish independence, and ostensibly, Irish reunification too, right?
I don't believe DG's post is supporting anything. I read it as another dig at the EU. After all, it was Spain preventing Catalan democracy.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 3:22 pm
  #1451  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I don't believe DG's post is supporting anything. I read it as another dig at the EU. After all, it was Spain preventing Catalan democracy.
OK fair enough, but that brings up another point.

Within one week after the Catalonia vote, 3000 companies moved to (or deregistered in Catalonia, and registered their businesses in) Spain. This was wholly unexpected (well, never mentioned, anyway) by those promoting independence. Like the Brexit referendum, the polls show that if that vote were recast today, the result would likely be the opposite - by a substantial margin. But that's just the benefit of hindsight.

Last edited by amideislas; Sep 12th 2018 at 3:24 pm.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 4:00 pm
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Had there even been a PlanB, then the UK's position might be coherent, but the fact is that after two years of time-wasting the Tory extremists now declare they'll not publish an alternative to the the flawed Chequers deal (that the EU will never accept) on the basis that it's not their job...... The truth is they have no alternative, nor is there one.
This whole process is the equivalent of taking your car onto the road with bald tyres, without lights and no brakes - on the basis that the other 27 road users will/ must give-way at the last moment.
INSANITY openly governs the UK.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:08 pm
  #1453  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Well, it's just what those companies have said. And it's not a stretch to comprehend that if access to their primary market is hampered or removed, then they'd have little choice but to move to where they can continue free trade with it. And it isn't as if the UK will suddenly ban or impede European imports it's so dependent upon. So, Nissan, for example, moving to say, Romania, wouldn't lose the UK market, yet still enjoy free access to its primary market. That doesn't seem like a bad business decision at all.

And as far as "remaniacs" "forgetting" that industry has been moving out of the UK for decades, it's worth considering that this indeed is going to be the whole revelation that Brexiteers have ignored in all of this. How is the UK going to magically replace the loss of trade? Nobody seems to be able to explain that without fabricating implausible scenarios.
There is not going to be any significant loss of trade, we'll still let the rEU countries sell to us and vice versa.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:13 pm
  #1454  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Assanah View Post


What‘s wrong with leaving the UK and producing cars in cheaper Bulgaria. If the UK with its rising salaries and burdensome red tape is too expensive it will lose out. Simple rational economic decision. You have repeated this ad nauseam: companies that employ carbon units above the market rates will lose out and go out of business.
Nothing wrong with it, it's perfectly rational for the company, but perhaps not so good for the country - and it's the EU that facilitates this movement of business from the UK to the east and south, whilst simultaneously charging the UK for the privilege.
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Old Sep 12th 2018, 5:16 pm
  #1455  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Some time ago, I posted an article explaining how the UK is about to miss out on substantial (and in some cases, explosive) economic growth in eastern Europe as that very migration of business increases, and how Brexit will only accelerate it.

This was always a key point of the EU. There's still huge growth potential within it, especially as its weaker economies, only now coming to understand the true power of free markets. The UK, by choosing not to be a part of it, will simply miss out on that increasing market, and forever be dependent on the "kindness of strangers" as the BOE puts it.
How does "explosive" economic growth in another country via the relocation of UK business to it help the UK?

Sure, some pension funds etc might invest, but how does it help the average man on the street that the EU has loaned 80M to Ford in Turkey to ramp up production of the Transit, whilst Ford closes the UK plant?
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