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Post EU Referendum...Part II

Post EU Referendum...Part II

Old Jun 19th 2019, 7:23 am
  #10966  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
You guys were foaming at the mouth when it was the UK supposedly using people as bargaining chips, now it's the EU doing it you're falling over yourselves to justify it - truly laughable
It's not a matter of justifying anything, just telling it like it is.

The false line peddled from the outset was that the UK was doing its damnedest to guarantee citizens rights and the EU was refusing. The circumstances are somewhat different now but it's not accurate to frame it as we're being used by the EU as bargaining chips. It's not as though we're of any value as such anyway, since the UK government couldn't care less about us and is far more concerned about whittling away the rights on both sides. Plus, as has been mentioned on so many occasions, the EU holds all the power already in these negotiations.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 7:25 am
  #10967  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Daft remainiac article. Why would the Spanish be positive about Brexit, it means less free cash for them from the EU.
The 100bn will ease the pain over the next few years.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 7:57 am
  #10968  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
You guys were foaming at the mouth when it was the UK supposedly using people as bargaining chips, now it's the EU doing it you're falling over yourselves to justify it - truly laughable
The UK and EU negotiated a Withdrawal Agreement which includes keeping certain rights post-Brexit, and now wants those same rights in the event of a no deal. Either pass the WA or pas a no deal Brexit. Or rescund A50 until we have an actual government with a plan.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 8:07 am
  #10969  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
The EU’s chief negotiator has been asked to think again after rejecting an appeal by the UK’s Brexit secretary for the full gamut of citizens’ rights in the withdrawal agreement to be protected in the event of a no-deal exit.
Protection of the rights of UK citizens in the EU already has been negotiated - in the Withdrawal Agreement. The UK just needs to sign the damn thing, for crying out loud. Besides which the EU has unilaterally urged the r27 to take additional measures at member state level, where the responsibility lies in the event of no deal.

A special agreement on citizens' rights outside the WA would no doubt be followed by another to protect pharmaceutical supplies, because people's health, which the nasty EU is using as a bargaining chip. Then a special agreement outside the WA to ensure cooperation between police forces, because people's security, which the nasty EU is using as a bargaining chip.

Barnier is right: this is a crude attempt to renegotiate the WA. It isn't going to happen.

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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:02 am
  #10970  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
It's not a matter of justifying anything, just telling it like it is.

The false line peddled from the outset was that the UK was doing its damnedest to guarantee citizens rights and the EU was refusing. The circumstances are somewhat different now but it's not accurate to frame it as we're being used by the EU as bargaining chips. It's not as though we're of any value as such anyway, since the UK government couldn't care less about us and is far more concerned about whittling away the rights on both sides. Plus, as has been mentioned on so many occasions, the EU holds all the power already in these negotiations.
And they're using you as bargaining chips, but you can't bring yourself to clearly say it.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:03 am
  #10971  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
The 100bn will ease the pain over the next few years.
What 100Bn will that be?
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:08 am
  #10972  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
The UK and EU negotiated a Withdrawal Agreement which includes keeping certain rights post-Brexit, and now wants those same rights in the event of a no deal. Either pass the WA or pas a no deal Brexit. Or rescund A50 until we have an actual government with a plan.
The UK has not agreed to the WA - because the EU have inserted the backstop that ties the UK's hands. Instead the British can see a no-deal Brexit happening and quite correctly want to ensure the rights of the many millions of EU citizens living in the UK as well as those few Brits living in the EU. The EU by response seems to treat these people as bargaining chips, quite disgusting.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:11 am
  #10973  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Positive proof that England has sadly turned into a -hit hole country !
Morals have flown out the window
The truth is distorted & denied for personal gain
And even though this is a "spoof" most off the fact's it contains are true.
https://newsthump.com/2019/06/18/as-...83fd-436016405
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:14 am
  #10974  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The UK has not agreed to the WA - because the EU have inserted the backstop that ties the UK's hands. Instead the British can see a no-deal Brexit happening and quite correctly want to ensure the rights of the many millions of EU citizens living in the UK as well as those few Brits living in the EU. The EU by response seems to treat these people as bargaining chips, quite disgusting.
How does the backstop tie British hands. Explain when it will be applied, in 2 years, 3 years, 5 years.
When will it happen.?
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:15 am
  #10975  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The UK has not agreed to the WA - because the EU have inserted the backstop that ties the UK's hands. Instead the British can see a no-deal Brexit happening and quite correctly want to ensure the rights of the many millions of EU citizens living in the UK as well as those few Brits living in the EU. The EU by response seems to treat these people as bargaining chips, quite disgusting.
? ?
One by accident , you may get your facts right
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:17 am
  #10976  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
How does the backstop tie British hands. Explain when it will be applied, in 2 years, 3 years, 5 years.
When will it happen.?
Instead of two players working together in a negotiation about how best to avoid a hard border, with both parties having to give up some positions in order to make it happen, the backstop enables the EU and Ireland to have the whip hand and not have to give up anything as they have the UK by the short and curlies - the UK's hands are tied in the negotiation.

It won't happen - because Ireland has overplayed its hand and the UK will instead hard Brexit rather than kowtow to the unreasonable demands.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:18 am
  #10977  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Ingles View Post
? ?
One by accident , you may get your facts right
Few in comparison.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:22 am
  #10978  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Instead of two players working together in a negotiation about how best to avoid a hard border, with both parties having to give up some positions in order to make it happen, the backstop enables the EU and Ireland to have the whip hand and not have to give up anything as they have the UK by the short and curlies - the UK's hands are tied in the negotiation.

It won't happen - because Ireland has overplayed its hand and the UK will instead hard Brexit rather than kowtow to the unreasonable demands.
You have not answered the question, how does tie the British hands and when will it be applied,
.
Your last sentence , Breximaniac elitist nonsense

Last edited by EMR; Jun 19th 2019 at 9:25 am.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 9:27 am
  #10979  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by EMR View Post
You have not answered the question, how does tie the British hands and when will it be applied,
.
Your last sentence , Breximaniac elitist nonsensens.
I explained exactly how it ties the British hands - Ireland/EU can be as obstinate as they want when it comes to negotiating the border issue because the backstop gives them the whip hand.

When will it be applied - whenever the Irish/EU want it to be.
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Old Jun 19th 2019, 10:29 am
  #10980  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
The UK has not agreed to the WA - because the EU have inserted the backstop that ties the UK's hands. Instead the British can see a no-deal Brexit happening and quite correctly want to ensure the rights of the many millions of EU citizens living in the UK as well as those few Brits living in the EU. The EU by response seems to treat these people as bargaining chips, quite disgusting.
The backstop only comes into effect if the UK and the EU haven't agreed and implemented any other cross-border customs agreement by the time the WA ends. It's called a backstop, but it could easily be considered a back-up plan.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Instead of two players working together in a negotiation about how best to avoid a hard border, with both parties having to give up some positions in order to make it happen, the backstop enables the EU and Ireland to have the whip hand and not have to give up anything as they have the UK by the short and curlies - the UK's hands are tied in the negotiation.

It won't happen - because Ireland has overplayed its hand and the UK will instead hard Brexit rather than kowtow to the unreasonable demands.
The backstop does nothing but put into writing the end result if no other options are agreed upon. If the UK and EU can come to an agreement on the NI-Irish border and put that agreement into place, the backstop disappears. So where's the problem? Unless Brexiters aren't wanting an agreement but want the WA to lapse without any plan for what happens after that. But it'll be the EU's fault of course....

Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I explained exactly how it ties the British hands - Ireland/EU can be as obstinate as they want when it comes to negotiating the border issue because the backstop gives them the whip hand.

When will it be applied - whenever the Irish/EU want it to be.
How many times does it have to be explained? The backstop will only be the default position if both sides cannot come to any other agreement on the border.
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