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Post EU Referendum...Part II

Post EU Referendum...Part II

Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:06 pm
  #21106  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
I am not saying they are all staying for the same reason. I am saying they want to stay, live and work in Britain because they are better off here and see a better future here than back in the turmoil of the EU. Why else would over 3,500,000 Europeans decide to stay?

I have highlighted a piece in your post above. But yesterday you said, 'All of those who have stayed have done so for family reasons'. See what I mean about talking BS and answering yourself?
Context is everything my old fraud. As I explained already, I meant all those I know - just as I spoke immediately before that of those I know who have left. Are you now trying to claim you're right due to a lack of clarity - that's a new low!

Only a pillock would claim to speak for 3.5 million people with no evidence whatsoever - or else someone merely projecting their own opinion. I realise you're deperate to make your specious claim stick, but others have also spotted the logical inconsistency in your argument, so it's time to kiss it goodbye.
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:08 pm
  #21107  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
At last, we have a gimmer of understanding.
When Cameron confidently fulfilled his referendum promise he completely failed to understand the mood in large areas of a country he sought to govern.
So many on this site argue from a pro EU or pro UK viewpoint, even I have argued that the EU isn't the shining example of Utopia some would have us believe.
But in truth the referendum vote was so unexpected because Cameron made the mistake of offering something so many voters hadn't had for a very long time, a meaningful opportunity to express themselves.
The key words here are 'meaningful' and 'opportunity'.
You have to realise, that for many years, stories of EU malpractice and high UK payments had persisted in folk memory and many of these were well grounded such that the poorer regions entered the referendum with an anti EU bias, but this wouldn't necessarily have been enough to enable a leave vote. The 'government' itself was a considerable factor contributing to the leave vote and the fact that the EU was seen as an arm of the UK establishment resulted in a lossmaking combination.
The ensuing election result is more straightforward. Voters experienced the 'establishment' seeking to overturn what they saw as the 'will of the people' and this was not taken well. A blob of green slime from Mars would have won the election if it promised to 'get it done' so as to put the finger up to an 'establishment' trying to overturn the referendum result.
I can understand the exasperation so many express that the UK is leaving the EU on the basis of a referendum that was only partly due to the fact that the EU existed, but that's the case, get on with it.
Of course it didn't help that the EU, understandably seeking to maximise it's outcome, drove an incompetent May and even more incompetent civil service into the dust, and this ensured a green slime win.
'So' I hear you say, 'How do you know all this, bloody knowall? You didn't vote and you don't live there!'
I didn't need to do any of that to understand how people think, it's a knack I have, and even that's open to question. But,to that, it's how I felt at the time.
You can argue until you're blue in the face that leaving the EU is the biggest mistake of all time. That the EU will prosper and that the UK will became europe's pauper, but you argue from the viewpoint of someone who realises how this'll impact you personally. To the average leave voter, leaving the EU won't affect them at all. They're not looking to move freely through the EU, or to work in Spain, or pop across the channel for lunch. Life for them will go on and they wonder what all the fuss is about.
I'm not saying that some arguments made by the Leave campaign didn't impact the vote. There were stories of councils impacted by immigrants overloading local services and there's always the bus and no doubt these were exploited and probably added to anti EU sentiment, but I'd argue that it was social antipathy to a percieved government out of touch with them that made them put the cross where they did.
To those who think I'm the one that's out of touch, I fully expect there to be groundswells of anti EU opinion throughout the poorer, economically depressed regions of the EU. Unfortunately for these groups they won't ever get what the UK voter got, a 'meaningful opportunity'. The EU and it's member nations won't allow it.
I think I can say, 100% agreement!
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:12 pm
  #21108  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Context is everything my old fraud. As I explained already, I meant all those I know - just as I spoke immediately before that of those I know who have left. Are you now trying to claim you're right due to a lack of clarity - that's a new low!

Only a pillock would claim to speak for 3.5 million people with no evidence whatsoever - or else someone merely projecting their own opinion. I realise you're deperate to make your specious claim stick, but others have also spotted the logical inconsistency in your argument, so it's time to kiss it goodbye.

​​​​​​​Equally laughably, claims not to be saying they're all staying for the same reason, just before saying they're all staying because they're better off in the UK than the "turmoil" of the EU.
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:12 pm
  #21109  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
At last, we have a gimmer of understanding.
When Cameron confidently fulfilled his referendum promise he completely failed to understand the mood in large areas of a country he sought to govern.
So many on this site argue from a pro EU or pro UK viewpoint, even I have argued that the EU isn't the shining example of Utopia some would have us believe.
But in truth the referendum vote was so unexpected because Cameron made the mistake of offering something so many voters hadn't had for a very long time, a meaningful opportunity to express themselves.
The key words here are 'meaningful' and 'opportunity'.
You have to realise, that for many years, stories of EU malpractice and high UK payments had persisted in folk memory and many of these were well grounded such that the poorer regions entered the referendum with an anti EU bias, but this wouldn't necessarily have been enough to enable a leave vote. The 'government' itself was a considerable factor contributing to the leave vote and the fact that the EU was seen as an arm of the UK establishment resulted in a lossmaking combination.
The ensuing election result is more straightforward. Voters experienced the 'establishment' seeking to overturn what they saw as the 'will of the people' and this was not taken well. A blob of green slime from Mars would have won the election if it promised to 'get it done' so as to put the finger up to an 'establishment' trying to overturn the referendum result.
I can understand the exasperation so many express that the UK is leaving the EU on the basis of a referendum that was only partly due to the fact that the EU existed, but that's the case, get on with it.
Of course it didn't help that the EU, understandably seeking to maximise it's outcome, drove an incompetent May and even more incompetent civil service into the dust, and this ensured a green slime win.
'So' I hear you say, 'How do you know all this, bloody knowall? You didn't vote and you don't live there!'
I didn't need to do any of that to understand how people think, it's a knack I have, and even that's open to question. But,to that, it's how I felt at the time.
You can argue until you're blue in the face that leaving the EU is the biggest mistake of all time. That the EU will prosper and that the UK will became europe's pauper, but you argue from the viewpoint of someone who realises how this'll impact you personally. To the average leave voter, leaving the EU won't affect them at all. They're not looking to move freely through the EU, or to work in Spain, or pop across the channel for lunch. Life for them will go on and they wonder what all the fuss is about.
I'm not saying that some arguments made by the Leave campaign didn't impact the vote. There were stories of councils impacted by immigrants overloading local services and there's always the bus and no doubt these were exploited and probably added to anti EU sentiment, but I'd argue that it was social antipathy to a percieved government out of touch with them that made them put the cross where they did.
To those who think I'm the one that's out of touch, I fully expect there to be groundswells of anti EU opinion throughout the poorer, economically depressed regions of the EU. Unfortunately for these groups they won't ever get what the UK voter got, a 'meaningful opportunity'. The EU and it's member nations won't allow it.
We know all that - it's why we're pissed off.

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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:21 pm
  #21110  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Context is everything my old fraud. As I explained already, I meant all those I know - just as I spoke immediately before that of those I know who have left. Are you now trying to claim you're right due to a lack of clarity - that's a new low!

Only a pillock would claim to speak for 3.5 million people with no evidence whatsoever - or else someone merely projecting their own opinion. I realise you're deperate to make your specious claim stick, but others have also spotted the logical inconsistency in your argument, so it's time to kiss it goodbye.
Read your original post again.

You tell me why you think over 3,500,000 Europeans want to stay, live and work in Britain? For the kids??? No, because they are better off here rather than going back to the turmoil in the EU. Remember, there will be a very high unemployment throughout the world with this pandemic. Before, during the financial crisis, EU member states could rejoice at the prospect of Britain taking in their unemployed and their families and giving them work. Now lazy EU member states will have to look after their own. We got out just in time. Just think, with the effects of this pandemic, what if another 3,500,000 Europeans decided to pack up bags and leave the shambolic EU and come to Britain to work? Phew! We just made it out in time.

Nice try to shut me down but all this 'desperate' lark, and 'pillock'(?): who calls anyone a pillock these days?.

Now I can kiss it goodbye.

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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:24 pm
  #21111  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
I think I can say, 100% agreement!
Of course, but it falls on deaf ears on this thread.
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:27 pm
  #21112  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

I think it would be wise to ask the 3.5 mil, manch. I have a sneaking suspicion that not all would give the same answer, nor cite the [hyperbolic] "turmoil" In the EU, nor that the UK is so much better (your opinion) as their primary reason. Nor do I suspect they'll all stay. Leaving the UK is a bit of a trend, manch. For obvious reasons.

Last edited by amideislas; Aug 5th 2020 at 8:59 pm.
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:27 pm
  #21113  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Equally laughably, claims not to be saying they're all staying for the same reason, just before saying they're all staying because they're better off in the UK than the "turmoil" of the EU.
They stay for many reasons: jobs, family, prospects, but they are all better off here in the UK. If not, you tell me why they do not leave?
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:29 pm
  #21114  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Read your original post again.

You tell me why you think over 3,500,000 Europeans want to stay, live and work in Britain? For the kids??? No, because they are better off here rather than going back to the turmoil in the EU. Remember, there will be a very high unemployment throughout the world with this pandemic. Before, during the financial crisis, EU member states could rejoice at the prospect of Britain taking in their unemployed and their families and giving them work. Now lazy EU member states will have to look after their own. We got out just in time. Just think, with the effects of this pandemic, what if another 3,500,000 Europeans decided to pack up bags and leave the shambolic EU and come to Britain to work? Phew! We just made it out in time.

Nice try to shut me down but all this 'desperate' lark, and 'pillock'(?): who calls anyone a pillock these days?.

Now I can kiss it goodbye.
More projection? really?

Keep digging.



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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:29 pm
  #21115  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Okay, let me put an end to it. Over 3,500,000 Europeans wish to stay, live and work in Britain because they would be better off in the EU. Does that satisfy all of your liberal minded egos?
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:34 pm
  #21116  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

You haven't a clue, do you?
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:35 pm
  #21117  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
Okay, let me put an end to it. Over 3,500,000 Europeans wish to stay, live and work in Britain because they would be better off in the EU. Does that satisfy all of your liberal minded egos?
No.
3.5m individuals have probably 3.5m different reasons for choosing to remain. Whether or not that continues has yet to be seen.
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:39 pm
  #21118  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
No.
3.5m individuals have probably 3.5m different reasons for choosing to reman. Whether or not that continues has yet to be seen.
You lot have the notion that your worldview is so inherently superior to anyone else's that those who do not conform to it are 'desperate', 'pathetic' or 'pillocks', and you try to shut them down with sarcasm and cryptic nonsense.

I am moving on from this subject now. I would rather watch paint dry.
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:39 pm
  #21119  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by macliam View Post
No.
3.5m individuals have probably 3.5m different reasons for choosing to remain. Whether or not that continues has yet to be seen.
I suspect several thousand choose to stay because they are living Oop North and have got used to mushy peas, Boddingtons and steak puddings and room to walk their whippets.
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Old Aug 5th 2020, 8:41 pm
  #21120  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by la mancha View Post
You lot have the notion that your worldview is so inherently superior to anyone else's that those who do not conform to it are 'desperate', 'pathetic' or 'pillocks', and you try to shut them down with sarcasm and cryptic nonsense.

I am moving on from this subject now. I would rather watch paint dry.
That sounds pretty desperate, manch. Trump-like, really. But Trump hates the humiliation. You seem to crave it.

Last edited by amideislas; Aug 5th 2020 at 8:46 pm.
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