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Post EU Referendum...Part II

Post EU Referendum...Part II

Old Nov 9th 2019, 8:48 pm
  #17731  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
FFS- Ami it is not about a preference one type of foreigner, it is about those with the needed skills for the job at any one time. How do you know it will not be MORE EU than non-EU?????

(I certainly think on evidence of his posts Expatrick does not favour non-EU migrants.)
OK, fair enough. But I find it suspicious that your arguments consistently seem to favour non-EU foreigners over EU foreigners, but then you accuse anyone who points that out of preferring EU foreigners over non-EU foreigners, which, laughably, is exactly what >you< do, in reverse. And even more laughably, non-EU foreigners are already dominant in the mix.

So what's your complaint, exactly? That it's "not fair"? To whom?

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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:09 pm
  #17732  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
OK, fair enough. But I find it suspicious that your arguments consistently seem to favour non-EU foreigners over EU foreigners, but then you accuse anyone who points that out of preferring EU foreigners over non-EU foreigners, which, laughably, is exactly what >you< do, in reverse. And even more laughably, non-EU foreigners are already dominant in the mix.

So what's your complaint, exactly? That it's "not fair"? To whom?
It is not about 'fair' or not 'fair' it is about what the Uk needs at any one time.

(Although I do think it is wrong to belittle the value that non-EU and their offspring have given to the Uk post war in so many fields.)

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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:12 pm
  #17733  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
It is not about 'fair' or not 'fair' it is about what the Uk needs at any one time.

(Although I do think it is wrong to belittle the value that non-EU and their offspring have given to the Uk post war in so many fields.)
I haven't seen that, so is that yet another strawman for lack of any argument?
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:15 pm
  #17734  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
EU nationals will also likely have the same needed skills, unless there's a particular skill only taught to non-EU nationals. And EU nationals don't need visas to attend UK job interviews, nor work visas to start their employment.
We are discussing Post Brexit, and in some jobs a very particular skill and experience may be needed.
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:18 pm
  #17735  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Agreed. What's that got to do with anything? Those skills are available now in a very large (freely available) labour pool. Post-brexit, that will be substantially more restricted. So what is the advantage?

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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:21 pm
  #17736  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
I haven't seen that, so is that yet another strawman for lack of any argument?
No, it is just my comment, I do not wish to argue about it.


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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:23 pm
  #17737  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

I see we're being deliberately skewed into 'immigrant' territory again......... Immaterial.
When the markets have no confidence in a state, there'll be fewer jobs for both indigenous and overseas labour (EU or non).
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50361025
Markets decide who retains their confidence; - OK? please.
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:33 pm
  #17738  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
We are discussing Post Brexit, and in some jobs a very particular skill and experience may be needed.
Well there'll be no EU and non-EU then, they'll both be on the same rules post-transition or in the event of a no deal.

So where's the problem?
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:38 pm
  #17739  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by 007Steve View Post
I see we're being deliberately skewed into 'immigrant' territory again......... Immaterial.
When the markets have no confidence in a state, there'll be fewer jobs for both indigenous and overseas labour (EU or non).
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50361025
Markets decide who retains their confidence; - OK? please.
​​​​​​​Yes, absolutely true. The markets aren't political or "tribal". They assess on the basis of likely outcome, not whether they subscribe to one ideology over another. It's just hard reality. It doesn't support one political view over another. Just the most likely outcome of the current political direction.

That explains a lot about why more Brexit results in lower sterling value. There's no upside in any form of Brexit. So, more if it results in more market pessimism. It's not rocket science.
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:44 pm
  #17740  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Yes, absolutely true. The markets aren't political or "tribal". They assess on the basis of likely outcome, not whether they subscribe to one ideology over another. It's just hard reality. It doesn't support one political view over another. Just the most likely outcome of the current political direction.

That explains a lot about why more Brexit results in lower sterling value. There's no upside in any form of Brexit. So, more if it results in more market pessimism. It's not rocket science.

Needless to say, it won't get coverage this coming week from the Tories.
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:45 pm
  #17741  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) It WAS two-way, UK stopped it from their side, then the other larger country stopped it about 17 years later because of terrorism fears.
So.…..not 2 way then. And definitely not when you were referring to (we used to have FoM into (as opposed to "there was freedom etc between" ).

It's fine, by the way - absolutely no need to thank me for educating you on the meaning of your posts. You're very welcome

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
2) My point was that Post Brexit when the UK is a non-EU country British migrants can use the Blue card system.
Well, yes. For those who have the requisite attributes (which are considerably more stringent than those which currently apply, thus denying many who might presently qualify the opportunity of even trying it out for size).

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
You fail to understand the simple point that in order to keep numbers at a manageable number in a small country some restrictions are necessary. If one group has FOM all restrictions are on the other groups. This has been explained so many times.
And you fail to understand that if one person enters the country to fill a job vacancy, another can't enter to fill that same vacancy, so it matters little where they come from in terms of the overall numbers.

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
POST BREXIT-----
It is not a case of 'not enough' of 'any' migrants but about admitting those with most needed skills regardless of where they come from! Why is this difficult to understand?
And what about if the most needed skills are actually what are commonly referred to as no skills or low skills?

Or, just to be a little bit outrageous here, lots of skills which are so undervalued and underpaid that they don't qualify for a skilled worker visa, since the qualification for that is entirely determined by the salary paid and not by any measurement of the skills required? Eh? Hows about that?
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:50 pm
  #17742  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Well there'll be no EU and non-EU then, they'll both be on the same rules post-transition or in the event of a no deal.

So where's the problem?
Precisely.
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 9:53 pm
  #17743  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

So that's more "fair" then?
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Old Nov 9th 2019, 10:06 pm
  #17744  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
1)So.…..not 2 way then. And definitely not when you were referring to (we used to have FoM into (as opposed to "there was freedom etc between" ).

It's fine, by the way - absolutely no need to thank me for educating you on the meaning of your posts. You're very welcome

2) And you fail to understand that if one person enters the country to fill a job vacancy, another can't enter to fill that same vacancy, so it matters little where they come from in terms of the overall numbers.


3) And what about if the most needed skills are actually what are commonly referred to as no skills or low skills?

4); Or, just to be a little bit outrageous here, lots of skills which are so undervalued and underpaid that they don't qualify for a skilled worker visa, since the qualification for that is entirely determined by the salary paid and not by any measurement of the skills required? Eh? Hows about that?
1) With British passports until 1985 we had FOM both ways.

2) However if one group has FOM other groups less opportunity.

3) 4) The words were "needed" skills. POST Brexit.



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Old Nov 9th 2019, 10:11 pm
  #17745  
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum...Part II

I guess NHS workers not needing a visa may be ending then.....

New NHS visa announced

The aim is to ensure that the NHS is able to source overseas doctors and nurses once EU free movement comes to an end post-Brexit. From today’s media reports we know that the visa will cost £464, half the normal fee. The visa process will be fast-tracked — decisions will be made within two weeks — and NHS workers applying through this route will have access to some form of payment system to repay the immigration health surcharge in instalments via their salary once in the UK.
Other visa routes have to pay the Immigration Health Surcharge when applying. Where's the equality? Why not increase the number of available training places instead, or does that not make enough money for the Home Office?

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