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Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Old Nov 23rd 2019, 9:57 pm
  #5941  
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Default Re: Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) Even you Morpeth cannot disagree that it was the British that organised partition! Or that it was the British who were the ruling power.
That there were disagreements regarding the establishment or not of Partition are well known.

2) I merely put links to show you the 'Shared' relationships. You disbelieve whatever is written and whoever writes it, if anything positive is shown.

3) As neither you nor I will be making a decision regrading a future FTD your repeated negativity is irrelevant.
Two questions? Should UK then cease trading with India?
Why is the EU and particularly Germany so keen on a FTD?

4) You repeat the same thing so often ---for you personally---- the obvious solution----became a 'barista'!
1.) By all accounts the blame for the mess was shared by all parties concerned in the negotiations for India's independence, and in fact your response proves my point of your anti-British bias, and certainly it was the disagreements and pressure for the Indian's themselves that caused the ultimate result as much as any purely British decision.

2.) I simply have pointed out the obvious that there is no military alliance between Britain and India, nor the close intelligence sharing relationship the Uk has with other countries. I see this past week again India has voted against the UK in the United Nations and not even just abstaining.

3.) Let me see if I understand this- you have continually presented what appears to be sheer nonsense that a trade deal expanding business with India will be a net positive for the UK, yet then now state it is irrelevant to question the fundamental premise and the evidence on which it is based as irrelevant. So what is the point of a Forum in which one side can post nonsense but then no one is to respond ? How can one learn without evidence or discussion ? As far as business with India, certainly making the situation even worse isn't a benefit to the UK, but is for India where your loyalties seem to be.\as far as the Eu and Germany certainly they will try always to better the terms of trade and payments,

4.) Simply I am acknowledging that there will probably be a benefit in the wages of some lower skilled workers- but considering the negatives of Brexit which you ignore, I just ask whether such benefits outweigh the negatives of Brexit. And what do I tell my children or grandchildren will offset all the advantages of EU membership that will be lost . That India will offer an Erasmus program and university research benefits such that the EU offers ? Than India, Nigeria and Indonesia will offer the same rights the EU current gives to British citizens? That it is a benefit tor educe the ability of British business to quickly bring in skilled works as needed ? That the Congo , India and Laos will be offering to treat British business and investors as they do local businesses and investors ? That the Ivory Coast will be offering British pensioners the same sort of advantages that British pensioners ( as many as 1 in 6 or 12 depending on the statistics used) have now in Spain ? That even though you cannot cite what terribly and dastardly EU rules affect our lives that getting away from the EU political system is some wonderful benefit that will actually affect out individual circumstances. Or that maybe post Brexit Scotland may breakaway but somehow this would be a benefit to the UK ?
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Old Nov 23rd 2019, 10:56 pm
  #5942  
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Default Re: Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
1.) By all accounts the blame for the mess was shared by all parties concerned in the negotiations for India's independence, and in fact your response proves my point of your anti-British bias, and certainly it was the disagreements and pressure for the Indian's themselves that caused the ultimate result as much as any purely British decision.

2.) I simply have pointed out the obvious that there is no military alliance between Britain and India, nor the close intelligence sharing relationship the Uk has with other countries. I see this past week again India has voted against the UK in the United Nations and not even just abstaining.

3.) Let me see if I understand this- you have continually presented what appears to be sheer nonsense that a trade deal expanding business with India will be a net positive for the UK, yet then now state it is irrelevant to question the fundamental premise and the evidence on which it is based as irrelevant. So what is the point of a Forum in which one side can post nonsense but then no one is to respond ? How can one learn without evidence or discussion ? As far as business with India, certainly making the situation even worse isn't a benefit to the UK, but is for India where your loyalties seem to be.\as far as the Eu and Germany certainly they will try always to better the terms of trade and payments,

4.) Simply I am acknowledging that there will probably be a benefit in the wages of some lower skilled workers- but considering the negatives of Brexit which you ignore, I just ask whether such benefits outweigh the negatives of Brexit. And what do I tell my children or grandchildren will offset all the advantages of EU membership that will be lost . That India will offer an Erasmus program and university research benefits such that the EU offers ? Than India, Nigeria and Indonesia will offer the same rights the EU current gives to British citizens? That it is a benefit tor educe the ability of British business to quickly bring in skilled works as needed ? That the Congo , India and Laos will be offering to treat British business and investors as they do local businesses and investors ? That the Ivory Coast will be offering British pensioners the same sort of advantages that British pensioners ( as many as 1 in 6 or 12 depending on the statistics used) have now in Spain ? That even though you cannot cite what terribly and dastardly EU rules affect our lives that getting away from the EU political system is some wonderful benefit that will actually affect out individual circumstances. Or that maybe post Brexit Scotland may breakaway but somehow this would be a benefit to the UK ?
1) Morpeth -----India was a colony of the British are you blaming them for wanting independence? The timing of the exit, the Radcliffe Line division even you can surely accept was down the British!!
Are you saying that the British have never, ever been at fault in any circumstances??????

2) Which UN resolution are you referring to?

3) I asked you if trade with India is such a negative why is the EU repeatedly trying to increase trade and re-open FTD talks?

4) A referendum was held in 2016 and a majority voted to 'Leave'. You voted 'Remain' and therefore disagree with the result.
There are many who have a fundamental disagreement with a Federation or 'Sovereign State of Europe'. Have you actually read the ambitions of the new EU Commission President and others?

My children work for the majority of the British people not a minority who wish to study and work abroad. My grandchildren are in schools where reading books can be loose sheets in a 'bag'. People had opportunity to work and study abroad and live before the EEC/EU.
This is an expat Forum note the number of non-EU countries people live and retire in!
The UK's first importance is to concentrate on reducing poverty, improving basic literacy standards, improve university teaching, policing, improve waste and inefficiency in the NHS.



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Old Nov 24th 2019, 9:41 am
  #5943  
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Default Re: Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) Morpeth -----India was a colony of the British are you blaming them for wanting independence? The timing of the exit, the Radcliffe Line division even you can surely accept was down the British!!
Are you saying that the British have never, ever been at fault in any circumstances??????

2) Which UN resolution are you referring to?

3) I asked you if trade with India is such a negative why is the EU repeatedly trying to increase trade and re-open FTD talks?

4) A referendum was held in 2016 and a majority voted to 'Leave'. You voted 'Remain' and therefore disagree with the result.
There are many who have a fundamental disagreement with a Federation or 'Sovereign State of Europe'. Have you actually read the ambitions of the new EU Commission President and others?

My children work for the majority of the British people not a minority who wish to study and work abroad. My grandchildren are in schools where reading books can be loose sheets in a 'bag'. People had opportunity to work and study abroad and live before the EEC/EU.
This is an expat Forum note the number of non-EU countries people live and retire in!
The UK's first importance is to concentrate on reducing poverty, improving basic literacy standards, improve university teaching, policing, improve waste and inefficiency in the NHS.
It is quite amazing you either don't read the posts you respond to or will not answer directly questions raised of the key issues.

1. Partition : I assume you have not read much about the negotiations or scholars on the subject, or even your own posts sometime back. (a) blaming the mess on the British alone ignores the situation and Indian politicians they were dealing with (b) I simply raised the issue tat a longer transition period may have avoided many of the problems that resulted form how the process was handled.Considering the atrocities Indians committed to each other during partition, the Indian-Pakistan wars, India's actions towards Hyderabad, the Princely States, Sikhim, perhaps rushing into independence was not the best path.

2.Diego Garcia

3. I just have posted 10 time or more the simple obvious factor that countries continually may seek to improve trade and payment relations.

4. Actually I didn't vote remain and pointed that out long ago to you.We have seen the mess it has created. It is generally Brexiters who fear democracy as now that we know more information certainly we should have another referendum. You have yet to explain what on earth is the big deal that would affect me or anyone else in such a terrible dastardly way about EU regulations.Sure some are silly just as some UK rules silly

You mention various priorities but the UK can sort those out through better domestic policies, leaving the EU if anything makes the problems in most cases worse in the examples I gave- which you either fail to address or consider, or look at the totality of the reduced opportunities you favor- plus the added cost as we are seeing now and in the transition after Brexit. Over 50,000 British students annually take advantage of Erasmus and other study benefits from EU membership plus British universities post-Brexit will have reduced joint research and collaboration with EU universities- how is that a benefit ? How is it a benefit to reduce the ability of British business to get skilled workers quickly in a cost-effective manner when needed ? Over 1.2 million Brits (officially) work or are retired in the EU- how is making things more cumbersome or not possible in some instances a benefit ? If FTA's as you seem to think by definition a benefit ( which they are not) why give up free access to 27 countries ?

As far as what people did before, just take a look at regulations concerning non EU citizens wishing to live,work and study in Europe- clearly lots of issues a post-Brexit Brit would have to deal with.

Are you trying to honestly say that you really believe that that there will be some flood of extra money to spend on the priorities you mention ? The 350 million a week ? EU regulations do not cause all or in many cases most of the problems you mention. Did the EU force the UK to reduce the number of police on the streets ? Are you in favor of a situation that may cause Scotland to breakaway ?

I just wish Brexiters would admit it is an emotional decision to leave when any negative of Brexit is dismissed with fantasies such as magical trade deals or some fantasy that the problems of the NHS will be significantly and dramatically dealt with by leaving the EU.However since this thread related to Brexit and India the simple question is why would increasing the negative trading and effect on Britain from its economic relationship with India be a benefit ? A simple question.
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 10:31 am
  #5944  
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Default Re: Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
It is quite amazing you either don't read the posts you respond to or will not answer directly questions raised of the key issues.

1. Partition : I assume you have not read much about the negotiations or scholars on the subject, or even your own posts sometime back. (a) blaming the mess on the British alone ignores the situation and Indian politicians they were dealing with (b) I simply raised the issue tat a longer transition period may have avoided many of the problems that resulted form how the process was handled.Considering the atrocities Indians committed to each other during partition, the Indian-Pakistan wars, India's actions towards Hyderabad, the Princely States, Sikhim, perhaps rushing into independence was not the best path.

2.Diego Garcia

3. I just have posted 10 time or more the simple obvious factor that countries continually may seek to improve trade and payment relations.

4. Actually I didn't vote remain and pointed that out long ago to you.We have seen the mess it has created. It is generally Brexiters who fear democracy as now that we know more information certainly we should have another referendum. You have yet to explain what on earth is the big deal that would affect me or anyone else in such a terrible dastardly way about EU regulations.Sure some are silly just as some UK rules silly

You mention various priorities but the UK can sort those out through better domestic policies, leaving the EU if anything makes the problems in most cases worse in the examples I gave- which you either fail to address or consider, or look at the totality of the reduced opportunities you favor- plus the added cost as we are seeing now and in the transition after Brexit. Over 50,000 British students annually take advantage of Erasmus and other study benefits from EU membership plus British universities post-Brexit will have reduced joint research and collaboration with EU universities- how is that a benefit ? How is it a benefit to reduce the ability of British business to get skilled workers quickly in a cost-effective manner when needed ? Over 1.2 million Brits (officially) work or are retired in the EU- how is making things more cumbersome or not possible in some instances a benefit ? If FTA's as you seem to think by definition a benefit ( which they are not) why give up free access to 27 countries ?

As far as what people did before, just take a look at regulations concerning non EU citizens wishing to live,work and study in Europe- clearly lots of issues a post-Brexit Brit would have to deal with.

Are you trying to honestly say that you really believe that that there will be some flood of extra money to spend on the priorities you mention ? The 350 million a week ? EU regulations do not cause all or in many cases most of the problems you mention. Did the EU force the UK to reduce the number of police on the streets ? Are you in favor of a situation that may cause Scotland to breakaway ?

I just wish Brexiters would admit it is an emotional decision to leave when any negative of Brexit is dismissed with fantasies such as magical trade deals or some fantasy that the problems of the NHS will be significantly and dramatically dealt with by leaving the EU.However since this thread related to Brexit and India the simple question is why would increasing the negative trading and effect on Britain from its economic relationship with India be a benefit ? A simple question.
1) Morpeth I have read extensively regarding Partition. Yes the mess was contributed to by many factors and people, however even you must agree that the British were in charge, the Radcliffe line was a key factor in the violence. Millions of people made homeless, walking with their possessions in opposite directions do you wonder that violence escalated out of control.
(There were plenty of atrocities committed by European people against each other in the proceeding years of 1947!!!)
Yes the rush of a few weeks was foolish, months were needed but your idea of three more decades!!!
If you want to discuss other matters start a new thread. (Do you really think Sikkim would be left alone by China? or do you think Tibet was fortunate to be annexed?)

2) The EU countries abstained. You really agree with the original forced expulsion of the inhabitants??????
Morpeth it is the 'Leavers' who are supposed to be pro-Empire-----you prove this theory wrong!!

3) The UK also. Have you read Merkels latest visit news?

4) If you didn't make the effort to vote---why blame others. There will obviously be negatives in leaving the EU, we do not know what the final 'deal' will be and it is hoped that good relationships will continue. Overall for the future of all grandchildren not just yours, to leave now is to be a benefit.

Regarding Trade with India the future trade deals with the fastest moving large economy, the massive market, the relationship historically and via the Commonwealth. The already major job creation, the already major contribution by those of Indian origin, can only be a benefit in the future!!!

(Non-EU citizens that I know have no difficulty in visiting or living in EU countries----The Schengen visa makes it easier than the UK for tourists. My personal knowledge is only Germany, for both business partnerships, living/ working.)




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Old Nov 24th 2019, 6:23 pm
  #5945  
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Default Re: Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) Morpeth I have read extensively regarding Partition. Yes the mess was contributed to by many factors and people, however even you must agree that the British were in charge, the Radcliffe line was a key factor in the violence. Millions of people made homeless, walking with their possessions in opposite directions do you wonder that violence escalated out of control.
(There were plenty of atrocities committed by European people against each other in the proceeding years of 1947!!!)
Yes the rush of a few weeks was foolish, months were needed but your idea of three more decades!!!
If you want to discuss other matters start a new thread. (Do you really think Sikkim would be left alone by China? or do you think Tibet was fortunate to be annexed?)

2) The EU countries abstained. You really agree with the original forced expulsion of the inhabitants??????
Morpeth it is the 'Leavers' who are supposed to be pro-Empire-----you prove this theory wrong!!

3) The UK also. Have you read Merkels latest visit news?

4) If you didn't make the effort to vote---why blame others. There will obviously be negatives in leaving the EU, we do not know what the final 'deal' will be and it is hoped that good relationships will continue. Overall for the future of all grandchildren not just yours, to leave now is to be a benefit.

Regarding Trade with India the future trade deals with the fastest moving large economy, the massive market, the relationship historically and via the Commonwealth. The already major job creation, the already major contribution by those of Indian origin, can only be a benefit in the future!!!

(Non-EU citizens that I know have no difficulty in visiting or living in EU countries----The Schengen visa makes it easier than the UK for tourists. My personal knowledge is only Germany, for both business partnerships, living/ working.)
Again you have never in hundreds of posts been able to point to concrete benefits of Brexit, just fantasy hopes. I ask several questions none you can answer directly

China has also been growing rapidly and like India has large economies of scale. and yet around there are countries especially first world ones, that have had an overall negative long term economic relationship with China. The Uk already has a negative trade and payments/investment relationship with India. Since you propose constantly the fantasy of a trade deal with India being positive for the UK surely you could give some reason why increasing business with India could be in the short or long run a NET benefit to the UK.

No offense but you seem to be unaware of that non EU citizens have to do to retire in various EU countries. As with various areas you promote taking away benefits for British citizens, whether students or universities, pensioners or professionals. and to make it worse fantasy economics. Plus the added cost and complication of transition at a time when supposedly we were leaving an era of austerity. Almost every reason you give for Brexit seems to be against British interests now and in the future. And the hilarious idea that the EU is responsible for UK domestic policy errors is just one more example of how fanatic Brexiters are.

But by all means explain how increasing a negative economic relationship with India will be a net benefit to the UK. India's main imports as I understand it are oil and Gold. and billions of pounds flow to India every year in the form of remittances and loans etc- you really want us to believe that your vote for Brexit was actually for Britain's benefit ?
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Old Nov 24th 2019, 7:04 pm
  #5946  
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Default Re: Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
1)Again you have never in hundreds of posts been able to point to concrete benefits of Brexit, just fantasy hopes. I ask several questions none you can answer directly

2) China has also been growing rapidly and like India has large economies of scale. and yet around there are countries especially first world ones, that have had an overall negative long term economic relationship with China. The Uk already has a negative trade and payments/investment relationship with India. Since you propose constantly the fantasy of a trade deal with India being positive for the UK surely you could give some reason why increasing business with India could be in the short or long run a NET benefit to the UK.

3) No offense but you seem to be unaware of that non EU citizens have to do to retire in various EU countries. As with various areas you promote taking away benefits for British citizens, whether students or universities, pensioners or professionals. and to make it worse fantasy economics. Plus the added cost and complication of transition at a time when supposedly we were leaving an era of austerity. Almost every reason you give for Brexit seems to be against British interests now and in the future. And the hilarious idea that the EU is responsible for UK domestic policy errors is just one more example of how fanatic Brexiters are.

4) But by all means explain how increasing a negative economic relationship with India will be a net benefit to the UK. India's main imports as I understand it are oil and Gold. and billions of pounds flow to India every year in the form of remittances and loans etc- you really want us to believe that your vote for Brexit was actually for Britain's benefit ?
1) As we haven't actually left yet, how can "concrete" examples be given???

2) You discount any of the present or future benefits of investment and job creation and ignore services, and future trade. So you would seem to prefer any negative balance to get worse.

3) Morpeth no offense but I am a retiree in a non-EU country!! Read the rest of the Forum, not just TIO!

(I did not say that the EU was responsible for domestic problems but that was what the UK should be concentrating on.
You promote what you see as benefits for people who are a minority of British citizens)

4) The aim is to improve trade with non-EU countries Post Brexit.

HOW MANY TIMES do I have to tell you that Brexit will not have a positive affect for India (You have such an apparent distaste for the country that must surely please you!!!)

How much you resent migrants sending home money----they earned I!!!!! , EU migrants do exactly the same thing!
(Just to reassure you on a personal level all OH's assets will come FROM India to our children and grandchildren in the UK!!!!!) (When we are dead!!!)

I would repeat I was not the only Brexit voter! If I had not voted the result would have been the same. If you had taken the trouble to vote your vote would have cancelled mine!!!

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Old Nov 26th 2019, 6:24 am
  #5947  
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Default Re: Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) As we haven't actually left yet, how can "concrete" examples be given???

2) You discount any of the present or future benefits of investment and job creation and ignore services, and future trade. So you would seem to prefer any negative balance to get worse.

3) Morpeth no offense but I am a retiree in a non-EU country!! Read the rest of the Forum, not just TIO!

(I did not say that the EU was responsible for domestic problems but that was what the UK should be concentrating on.
You promote what you see as benefits for people who are a minority of British citizens)

4) The aim is to improve trade with non-EU countries Post Brexit.

HOW MANY TIMES do I have to tell you that Brexit will not have a positive affect for India (You have such an apparent distaste for the country that must surely please you!!!)

How much you resent migrants sending home money----they earned I!!!!! , EU migrants do exactly the same thing!
(Just to reassure you on a personal level all OH's assets will come FROM India to our children and grandchildren in the UK!!!!!) (When we are dead!!!)

I would repeat I was not the only Brexit voter! If I had not voted the result would have been the same. If you had taken the trouble to vote your vote would have cancelled mine!!!
Again no direct answer. Please answer the simple question relevant to this thread : since the trade and payment relation with India negative for the UK , why would increasing the negative effects be beneficial for the UK ?

I mention the benefits from EU membership for many- how is taking away such benefits a positive for British citizens ?

As far as inward investment first there is more investment from UK to India than reverse, and as has been shown repeatedly Indian investment into the UK isn't a high percentage of total inward investment. Indian investors already have freedom to invest in the UK- so how would a trade agreement change that ? ,

If the Uk not part of the EU, the Uk will become less attractive for some companies to set up in the UK. So besides your fantasy about trade with India, what indicators are there that Brexit will result in 'job creation' ?

I have no animosity towards India just towards fantasies that will hurt opportunities for my family, and we different in I have loyalty for the UK not towards another country in this matter.Like most elitists since you are fine you have no empathy for the hundreds of thousands of Brits who retire abroad, students who take advantage of education programs, or businesses needing skilled workers you promote making it more difficult for them. Ironically you were right in saying the UK should concentrate on solving domestic policy issues- leaving the EU if anything will make such issues harder to deal with. .

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Old Nov 26th 2019, 6:31 am
  #5948  
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Default Re: Post EU referendum and India (Off topic posts removed from the EU thread) 2

Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
1) As we haven't actually left yet, how can "concrete" examples be given???

2) You discount any of the present or future benefits of investment and job creation and ignore services, and future trade. So you would seem to prefer any negative balance to get worse.

3) Morpeth no offense but I am a retiree in a non-EU country!! Read the rest of the Forum, not just TIO!

(I did not say that the EU was responsible for domestic problems but that was what the UK should be concentrating on.
You promote what you see as benefits for people who are a minority of British citizens)

4) The aim is to improve trade with non-EU countries Post Brexit.

HOW MANY TIMES do I have to tell you that Brexit will not have a positive affect for India (You have such an apparent distaste for the country that must surely please you!!!)

How much you resent migrants sending home money----they earned I!!!!! , EU migrants do exactly the same thing!
(Just to reassure you on a personal level all OH's assets will come FROM India to our children and grandchildren in the UK!!!!!) (When we are dead!!!)

I would repeat I was not the only Brexit voter! If I had not voted the result would have been the same. If you had taken the trouble to vote your vote would have cancelled mine!!!
You wrote : "promote what you see as benefits for people". Please do explain the benefits I mentioned are not benefits. If you look at the percentage of the British population if over 66, and the number who are permanently or part time retired in the EU it is quite a significant percentage though I agree a minority. But what possible benefit does Brexit give to replace such benefits ?

Is Brexit worth losing Scotland ? If Brexit worth the Uk losing its influence on the world stage from EU membership ?.There are just so many negatives that Brexiters seem to ignore.

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